Comments on: A Team without a Team

By: Valerie

Valerie — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:01:34 +0000

We have NFC teams here in the UK (Not For Competition) where, if there is room at a tournament, dogs from various teams can join up to run as an NFC team. No points or rosettes but it’s a great way to keep the oldies or slower dogs running. Jumps can be at any height and using wings is allowed if necessary.
The cost is the same as entering a divisional team and it doesn’t matter how many points a dog has or hasn’t.

By: Kristie

Kristie — Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:41:25 +0000

I love pickup teams. It’s such a great option for people who want to participate but can’t for whatever reason. I am travelling to 2 tournaments this fall without my team, but I want to still race, and gain some tournament experience for my very green dog. This gives me the perfect opportunity to do just that. My team benfits by having me return with a dog who is much more race-ready when we compete again locally. I hope that NAFA decides to do the same thing, because it’s a great and very innovative thing that Ufli is doing very very well.

By: Jayne

Jayne — Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:38:14 +0000

We’ve been using the vets team option in NAFA as a pick up team, it enables us to run some of our older dogs, and it helps other teams, 1 in particular with several young dogs who needed racing time & vet dogs still able to run fulltime, but not quite ready for 2 teams (yet). We’ve run with a judge’s dog, so instead of just judging all day, the judge got to have some flyball fun too. We’ve also been tossed onto teams with random folks and it worked just fine.

None of us have lost the concept of team, we have a very enjoyable time getting some points on dogs who love running. At one point, I nearly busted a gut laughing because we had a whole vets team of ex-teammates, all on 3 different teams now, but who once all played together. We all got along just fine and did a great job running together, I’d say we had more fun than when we were ALL on the same team. I see that in U-Fli pick up that is creates a fellowship amongst teams, that yes we compete against you, but we can also help each other out & have a lot of fun running dogs together. I’ve seldom seen a pick up team that was cursed by that one new dog, most have more than 4 dogs or teams put their solid dogs on the pick up to work in a more green dog on their own lineups. Course there is always an exception & that’s part of the risk of a pick up team (or vets team).

I’d say if people do leave their original team b/c they have such a better experience on a pick up team, that there are probably a whole lot of underlying issues in ideology, club leadership, yadda ya. Maybe the pick up team just showed them there was another way to play that was a better fit for them. Pick up teams can also be a good option for folks who just aren’t good teammates in general. They get to play, nobody has to deal with them on a regular basis.

As a bonus entering vets/pick up teams provides the host team with additional revenue, which could be the difference between profit & loss in the hosting effort.

By: OldSheba

OldSheba — Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:52:30 +0000

I agree with Robbie’s point in regaurds to having to race against an invisible team, due to forfiture. I too, think it would speed up the racing and I like his idea about opting to earn a win vs. a scratched opponent by racing and not earning points. Because if you race that ghost team like you have to right now- you still get the win even if it takes you 18 hours to complete the heat!- joking on the time, here

As far as pick up teams – I do think that by racing with your actual team should be worth something extra, because you show commitment and loyalty to your club. You train with them, you work many hours together. I think it’s fair to earn something for that team dedication.
Just a thought; but maybe an extra point per race your dog ran if you raced with your “home” club. On the other hand if there wasn’t a spot for you on your real club or they didn’t want to enter a specific tourney for whatever reason and you join a pick up team to compete then you could still get a win just not the extra point.
Just a thought to ponder….

The other thing about pick ups is that every club has an opionon as to whether they think a dog is “race ready”. This can be a bit scary in my mind, because race ready on one team may be no where near what you consider race ready. We’ve alll seen clubs put dogs in repeatedly who weren’t ready. To the dissapointment of their opponents and handlers on thier own teams alike. Pick up teams must choose wisely there’s an element of risk in doing so, for all involved.

I like pick up and am glad it’s there. There are things that must be discussed and decided upon by participants that if all agree to it flows really well- and everyone walks away with a great experience.

By: Robbie

Robbie — Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:34:31 +0000

From a competitive standpoint, I wish pickup teams could compete for wins. If you beat a pickup team, you don’t get the 5 bonus points because you didn’t really have to win to get it. Too bad. I think it can be a drag sometimes, for the pickup team and for the team racing the pickup team. I know when we race a pickup team, we’ll likely rest our fastest dogs for that race.

On a related note, if someone scratches, I hate that we have to race an empty lane to pickup the wins. If you are playing baseball, and the other team does not shows up, they don’t make you play the game alone. I think if a team forfeits, you should have the option of not racing, take the wins and don’t get any points. If you want the points and the wins, then you can race an empty lane. This could also help tournaments go a little faster.

By: Beth

Beth — Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:13:52 +0000

Hmm, I didn’t realize that the “regular” team didn’t pick up the bonus points. That doesn’t seem fair. Perhaps NAFA would be different on that issue.
The box issue seems that it would only matter to those actually racing on a PU team. Those worried about a different box of course needn’t join a PU team.
And the issue of splitting up a team doesn’t sound real reasonable either since from what I’ve seen so far, folks trying to get a PU spot know it’s only for that tournament.
I’ve been racing for about three years now, but still feel like a newbie on certain issues that have had some conroversy like the measuring thing (since I come from the agility world, measuring is no big deal and is a fact of life we train for, but I don’t want to get that thread going again!).
Anway, thanks for the input. I continually find out more about things that seem very superficial at first, but have deeper rooted aspects that I hadn’t considered.

Beth

By: eli

eli — Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:39:44 +0000

I am still of mixed feelings regarding the role of the pickup team at tournaments.
Being of more traditional mind, I see where pickup teams detract from region-wide club competition. My thought is that neither team running wins tournament points, and the “Regular” team can not win bonus points for winning heats (U-FLI).
I have been to a tournament where pickup teams represented one third of a division, in an area where there are enough teams to go around (if you consider the distances some team members travel in order to run with their selected team (spring loaded is an international team).

I do feel pickup needs to be available, for the reasons that have already been expressed. I also feel that there should be no further movement toward integrating points earning to equal what a “regular” team earns.

For all the benefits, remember that a “regular” team competing against a pickup team and winning each heat does not earn the 5 bonus points – it should be this way. But be understanding if that team takes a dim view of pickup teams.

By: bcollie

bcollie — Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:46:29 +0000

I’ve also run pick-up and it was lots of fun. I think when you run pick-up there’s less competition and everyone’s a little more relaxed. It’s great to meet new people and talk dogs. I didn’t know any of the people I ran with before the tourn. and now have a whole new group of friends. We didn’t run into any real problems and just started the day with some loose passing to get the dogs used to each other. Almost all of the boxes in our region are made by the same person so the dogs didn’t really seem to have an issue with it.

By: Sonya

Sonya — Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:36:49 +0000

Arguments I heard included:
Who’s box would be used? Would it confuse dogs?

What would happen to the team, if the pick up team conflicted with the “real” team

Would it eventually break up teams?

Having played pick up, I found these particular concerns not to pan out. The dogs did surprisingly well on other boxes. Ring conflicts were a minimum, and teams usually don’t break up from these types of conflicts. If a team splits, there are usually other issues at work

By: Larry

Larry — Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:45:23 +0000

Good question! Maybe someone reading this that was against it will speak up and tell us why.