If you look up the meaning of ringer in the dictionary, you may see these meanings: (1) a contestant entered dishonestly into a competition or (2) a contestant entered in a competition under false pretenses. Although, neither one of these definitions is completely accurate for the case I want to discuss, I’m going to use the word, ringer in the sense that a dog is brought over from another team and no one on the team actually owns the dog. Ownership of the dog may or may not be transferred. This practice, although not against the rules, seems unfair to me in a number of ways.
The Scenario
The team owner or a member of a team becomes friends with someone on a faster team. The friendship may or may not be a valid friendship, i.e. a ruse to acquire a fast dog, usually a height dog, from the faster team. The fast team may be pumping out height dogs just so that they can set records and a 4-second height dog may not be fast enough for them. So instead of the fast team having an over abundance of height dogs, they give a slower team in another region one of their fast height dogs. After all, a 4-second height dog is a real commodity to a slower team. It can mean the difference between being 2 or 3 in the region to taking the number 1 position.
As I said, it is not against any rule, and may I add that I don’t think a rule could even be created to lessen this activity, but it does seem somewhat underhanded or unfair to me. It’s especially unfair to the dogs and people on the team that own and trained their dog(s). After all, this ringer is now taking a spot on the team in place of one of the team dogs.
The Fast Teams
Who hasn’t sat in awe and watched these fast teams compete against each other. However, when you think of the dogs that may have been tossed aside for the sake of speed…it makes you wonder. I’m not saying that all fast teams do this but I know that one sub 16-second team does and I can’t help but think that more do.
I would like to know what you all think about this practice. Is it good for the sport or if more people knew about this would it give the sport a bad name? Is Flyball going the way of the conformation breeder, i.e. over breed to find the best? What are your thoughts?
Larry
20 comments ↓
WOW Larry…welcome back, again! You just opened a BIG OLE FAT CAN O WORMS!
I LOVE it!
I know I did but it’s doubtful that the “worms” will comment. However, I did truly want to know what people thought of this practice.
You know Larry it doesn’t necessarily have to be a height dog that we are talking about. It could be a fast big dog that the team is lacking and they bring in a ringer from another team to fill that spot.
Hi Judy! You are right but in my experience I’ve seen mostly height dogs so that is the example I used.
I was once on a team who did this. not with a height dog. the dog wasn’t actually fast enough for our fast team either, but was a great addition to our B team, giving us a chance to give our dogs a break. it was great for all parties - plus a dog who would have been benched all year got a chance to race.
I guess there can be good and bad. My dog was pushed aside and sidelined because of it. He was a height dog.
A few years ago some people that were on my team at the time were recipients of dogs trained by another team, but who did not meet that team’s expectations. The dogs were given to my teammates because our team is a second tier (not an elite) team and because those particular teammates had formed friendships with members of an elite team. At the time I had never heard of people doing this and was surprised to say the least. The dogs had behavior issues in being family members and through much love and reinforcement by their new owners made much progress as companionable creatures. Their flyball skills improved as well. I guess it was a good thing for the dogs because they came to homes where they were more cherished. (The rest of the story is that all those teammates eventually transferred to the elite team and those dogs run when that team runs in Division 2. )
Currently my team is all new recruits to the sport, folks devoted to their high drive dog and looking for an activity and outlet for their energy. None of these folks has more than three dogs and they wouldn’t part with any of them for any reason. I usually find when they learn that elite teams do this sort of thing the scales fall from their eyes about flyball. They continue to be impressed with how the elite team’s A team dogs perform the sport, but you can definitely sense a shift in their opinion. As a captain it is an awkward thing to have to explain and challenge to get past and keep these new recruits enthusiastic about the sport.
IMOHO it’s an activity that is detrimental to the sport
I was part of a team that “tossed aside” dogs and people in the all mighty search for the “fast” dogs. They want to be tops again and were willing to sacrifice dogs, people, and long standing friendships to get it.
Big dogs unable to run 4.5 seconds or faster (their definition of fast) were pushed aside. These dogs were forced to share spots, pulled if they bobbled a ball or their handlers caused an early pass. These dogs were not encouraged to play if too many dogs wanted to go to a tournament.
Height dogs (already part of the team) not under 6 seconds were also pushed aside. They were replaced by smaller, faster, or more reliable height dogs. Small dogs, not needed as height dogs, were ignored.
All these dogs, big slow ones and small non-height ones, were treated differently, sub-standard. Meanwhile, other, newer, better dogs were being sought out and told wonderful lies and extraordinate promises made. Height dogs were being brought in from other teams and other regions. They were given full time spots on every team. They were promised 25 points for all runs. They were coddled and wooed. Faster “big” dogs were actively sought and trained. Fast green dogs were forced in the lanes before they were ready, taking heats from the team’s big “slow” dogs.
We, with the slower, bigger dogs were expected to give up our heats without a word - otherwise, we were being poor teammates. Those fast dogs already on the team - well, they were given the chance to double-run; on the A team and perhaps, on the C/D team to “help” these slow dogs out.
Eventually, those of us with the slow dogs left. We formed our own team. We run slow dogs. We know it. We love them anyways and we are having fun regardless. Sure, we may not be making all 25 point runs, but at least we are fair to ourselves, our dogs, and the team.
I find the practice of “ringers” disturbing and contrary to Flyball. It is a game. It should be fun. Flyball should be more like Rec Soccer (everyone wins and everyone gets a ribbon) than College Football (one winner, each College out wooing the best of the best in high school sports). After all, it isn’t like we are getting money or national prestige playing this game. It is only a hobby. A way to spend time with the pets we love.
Yeah, we’re not that serious. We enjoy the competition alot, but in a less agressive, friendlier way. We try to mix up faster and slower dogs on our team so that if we run more than one team, everyone has a decent chance of getting a good number of 25 point runs. That’s about the only team “engineering” we do. Guess that’s one reason we don’t mind being in Div. 2 or lower. Much less pressure, but still lots of fun!
Beth
Several years ago, My sister & I left our team and formed a “new” team over “philosophical differences”.
That’s really what this is all about.
Larry, you are RIGHT about the impossibility of writing a rule against this practice for one reason: It is about the “internal affairs” of individual clubs. I don’t want U-FLI or NAFA or any other governing body over flyball to tell me or any other team/club how to conduct their affairs WITHIN their team/club.
In some respects, because the practice has caused some to feel that there MUST be a better way to run their club and therefore START their own team/club….it has actually caused the sport of flyball to grow. More teams/clubs with differing goals creates more choices for people to find the “right” organization for them.
I don’t think it gives the sport of flyball a “bad rap” so much as it SHOULD make individuals shop carefully for the right club to join. …..or, START YOUR OWN CLUB!! That makes it even more fun!
Better to start your own club than to remain bitter over the choices others make when you CAN’T control the desires that they have.
Just food for thought…
…..Chris
I think it all comes down to team philosophy. If the team is trying to be the fastest then bringing in a ringer may be the only way to get there.
There are pros and cons to doing this though. If someone is unhappy that their team is doing it, even they need to speak up and get some clarification or just leave.
Being bitter only leaves everyone with a bad taste in their mouths not just those involved.
People moving or starting teams will only help flyball grow.
I do not have ringers on my team but I know folks who do. I may not always agree with it or how it is done but it is not my business. If a team wants to do it then do it. If teammates don’t like it then those folks can just move to a team that they get along with or start a new one.
I am a recipient of one of these “ringer” dogs mentioned by a prior poster (my current teammate has the other dog). At the time, my husband and I had been in the sport for over 1 ½ years and had been able to get only one of our four dogs trained using our team’s limited training ability. I’m sure that most of you who are new to the sport can relate to me when I say that I desperately wanted to have a dog of my own to run! I felt that this was such a great opportunity to really develop my handling with an experienced pro while helping my team. The dogs in question got to do what they loved to do — play flyball — more than they did before, and that is a win for everyone.
There were also some other perks that came with it. We were one of those teams who could always field one team of 6 dogs, but fell 1 or 2 dogs short on the second team due to people who couldn’t make tournaments or moved, etc. Thus, several dogs had to double run or we didn’t enter the second team. These dogs never forced any other dog to sit on the sideline. Secondly, about half of the team, including myself, had a desire to field a more competitive team for the fun of it and this dog would allow us to do that.
We eventually left the team, taking our ‘ringers’ with us because we really enjoyed the fun of competition and the camaraderie that you get being on a top team. We wanted to travel more, meet new friends and compete against different regions.
Now, my ‘ringer’ is semi-retired due to a career-ending injury, but she played in every tournament up until then and now comes to practice every Sunday to help train puppies. I guess there is a common misperception that slower dogs don’t matter and don’t get to play on more competitive teams which is unfortunate. These are our pets first and ‘children’ for many of us. We love them, regardless of if we have 1 or 5 and we just go out there and field more teams to accommodate all our dogs so that everyone who wants to play can play.
You bring up a VERY important point, Wendy. What happens to somone who wants to play flyball but, whose dog(s) just doesn’t(don’t) have the “trainability” that flyball requires?
It just so happens that situation was true a couple of years ago for a married couple on our team. The husband had trained their “first” flyball dog. The wife wanted to join in on the fun she perceived her husband as having. The problems began when it became obvious that “her” dog wasn’t getting it.
It never occurred to us to even look for a “ringer”. That might’ve resolved their issues. As it so happened, they ended up leaving us and flyball because BOTH of them couldn’t play with their own dog.
…..Chris
Wendy & Chris,
You both bring up excellent points but the scenario that you are describing is not really the issue. Yes, there are some valid reasons for bringing in an outside dog as you both stated. However, that wasn’t the point of my post. Here is the problem.
Let’s say that you are running on a team that has plenty of dogs, even height dogs. You are already the fastest team in the region but another faster dog is brought in from another team and region. Now the height dog that was on your A team is moved to a back up position on the A team. You are still fast enough to beat any team in the region even with the back up height dog but the back up dog never gets to run. Even when you are running much slower teams, the back up dog sits in his crate.
It would be a different story if you reposition your dogs but you have plenty of dogs and even if you moved the back up height dog from your A team you might be bumping out other height dogs. The soul reason for bringing in the other dog is for speed. It doesn’t matter if other dogs get pushed aside by a dog that isn’t even owned by anyone on the team. So what do you do? You eventually leave the team.
“You are already the fastest team in the region but another faster dog is brought in from another team and region. Now the height dog that was on your A team is moved to a back up position on the A team. You are still fast enough to beat any team in the region even with the back up height dog but the back up dog never gets to run. Even when you are running much slower teams, the back up dog sits in his crate. ”
You left out the part about “…fastest team in the region” in your original article.
If you are the fastest team in the region, your team is, by definition, all about “speed”. However way the team captain/owner does it, they are going to do things to maintain or improve this position.
Leaving the team is not your only option in NAFA anymore. You can find some friends from another club and combine your dog with theirs and enter the Open Class. That way, if your HD is listed as “back-up” on your A team but, never gets to run, you can run in Open Class. Your team of origin still has “back-up” available to it but, you & your dog get to actually play.
The hardest part about participating in a “team sport” is finding the willingness within yourself to set aside your own “personal needs” for the needs of the “team”. If your personal needs are really only about “having fun” then, it won’t matter to you if your dog plays on the A team or an Open team. However, I’ve known several individuals for whom this DID matter and they left their team because their dog was no longer listed on the “A” team.
At any rate, DO what is best for you & your dog and BE HAPPY. Stop worrying about what other people want (fast dogs) or do.
….Chris
the thing is there are some teams set up with the goal of speed in mind, and teams set up for different reasons (points/titles, letting everyone run equally, having fun, etc.). if you’re on a team that’s set up for speed, and they bring in a ringer, well that’s what you signed up for. if you’re on a team set up for points and they do it, then you have more reason to be angry about it. finding the right team for you and your dog is way more important in team sports than individual sports - fortunately most regions have lots of teams to choose from. or you can start your own.
Back then, the Open Class was not an option. I did realize the team was about speed when it was formed because I helped form it, and I did put my dog aside for the good of the team. However, once other things became a problem this one issue along with many others became the deciding factor to leave. I made the right decision and I’m happy.
If I hadn’t brought this subject up we wouldn’t be discussing it right now and some people may not even know that the practice exist. It does go back to finding the right team even if you are one of the founding members.
“We eventually left the team, taking our ‘ringers’ with us because we really enjoyed the fun of competition and the camaraderie that you get being on a top team. We wanted to travel more, meet new friends and compete against different regions. ”
We’re not on one of the top teams, in fact, we only ran in Division 1 once in the last 4 years, and that was a fluke, but our team camaraderie is outstanding. You don’t have to be on a top team for camaraderie and you definitely don’t have to be on a top team to travel to other regions and to meet new people. For us, it is all about our dogs and human companionship and last of all for the competition, we do love to compete, after all it wouldn’t be a race if there were no competition (regardless of your level of racing).
If your goal is to have the fastest team and that is understood from the beginning, go for it, but don’t step on the toes of others to get there and ruin friendships.
I like speed so I have found my way of running with a faster team part time. I play NAFA with one club and U-Fli with another club. In U-Fli (speed)the club runs faster than the club in NAFA (point/placement, etc…). I enjoy running on both clubs and both have positives and negatives.
You can have both worlds if someone is willing.
Of course, I have run someone else’s ringer on their club so I can get my speed fix that way too.
Bottom line to this is that no one likes to get bumped. Espescially when someone new comes in, because you see yourself as being commited to this club you ‘ve shown it over time, and this new person hasn’t put in any of the time, and you get bumped - how’s that fair?what about loyalty? You may ask.
Sadly, we’ve all been there and if you haven’t been yet, you probably will.
This Sport is really about speed and improving on speed. In our club, every week we train we try to do better than the week before. And better really means faster. Sure we want a bettter box turn, tighter, smoother, snappyier off the box- Why? TO IMPOVE on SPEED. We practice getting passes tighter- Why? Speed. Everything we do is to improve on the time we run while keeping our dogs sound.
Face it , there’s always going to be a dog who’s faster than yours. But the thing to me is, that we too often forget, this is a team (Club) effort. And if your Club gets a fast dog, it’s a Club win not a single person/dog win. Right?
Flyball people can tell you who the fastest club in North America is - but can the same amount tell you the name of the fastest Dog and Handler pair? (far fewer I’m certain)
Your club Philosophy should drive the line up formation, and you should know and actually believe in the philosophy before you join.
It’s great you brought this up - because this is the sort of topic that should be decided on as a club before it happens. This could get disscussions rolling.
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