But that’s a little something positive about that mobile unit ASPCA Cares. It helps families that cannot afford spay/neuter and does it free of charge while also educating on why it’s important. Or at least it’s how they depict it on TV, but it is a good idea.

My neighbour has not s/n her 2 dogs (male AND female) because she cannot afford it. The other downside is that her family believes it inhumane to the dogs because now if they want to have babies they can’t. That whole idea drives me up a wall, but the main reason they haven’t been fixed is due to the high price. I also think it’s important to make it low cost and to make it so that the people are educated.

Glad we understand each other .

By providing the low cost spay lower income people are more able to afford to s/n their pets. The same money used to enforce draconian laws can be used to provide these humane services as a choice. With m/s/n some low income families are forced to relinquish their animals to certain death. If we joined hands to provide such services there would be fewer deaths and less conflict – a win win.

Yes, you’re right. I agree with you. Along with what I’ve just said above in respect to those who are for the “rights” of animals.

I do agree with what you say with some reservations for trying to understand both sides of the spectrum and my own personal afflictions.

Your point of view is very much understood, forgive my initial mis-reading of your statement.

I rescue dogs, but I rescue ANY dog. Why should I exclude mutts from purebreds, besides, all purebreds were mixed or bred with something else to create what they are today. In my opinion breed specific is a little descriminate. I admit that there are plenty dogs from the shelter who have behavioural issues, but I’ve also changed those problems before as well.

Yes perhaps spaying or neutering should be YOUR choice, but if you’re irresponsible it only creates other problems. That’s why I said it’s a double edged sword. You have people who want to keep their rights, but if you cannot act accordingly given that right then the law steps in and takes them away. I am not calling it right or fair, but it’s the world.

I am not a fan of BYB or puppy mills or people who think it’s ethical to kill billions of livestock a year that we don’t even use. It’s just NOT ethical or humane, it’s wasteful and I just don’t appreciate it.

I can’t really call anyone wrong or right in this case because I understand the point of view of YOUR argument and I understand that of the people who are battling for “animal rights. ” Unfortunately, though, fighting each other doesn’t resolve any issues. The more we butt heads it seems the more the opposing sides detest each other and then we pretty much get nowhere.

I don’t want to lose my dogs, but I also don’t want purebreds to take over the world. I don’t want people who want the choice of eating meat to go away, but I don’t want billions of animals slaughtered and then wasted. I am in no man’s land. No one can seem to come to terms and find a plausible solution to whatever problem it is.

I am a semi-vegetarian and it’s actually a healthier lifestyle…FOR ME.

I’ve also spoken with USDA in a meeting and they are the hardest people to compromise with PERIOD. Like it or not there are more factory farms than small family farms, just like there are more puppy mills and BYB than responsible and reputable breeders. Animal Rights plays off of the majority…and yes other people get persecuted in the process.

http://www.meatrix.com promotes small family farming NOT vegetarianism or veganism. Attempts to educate the population on healthier meat and dairy products…doesn’t encourage the extinction of meat and dairy farming.

One has to understand that animal rights individuals wish to eliminate all animals in the lives of humans. No more pets -dogs or cats – no more beef, sheep, pig, chickens etc. They want us to all be vegans. Go surf some animal rights sites. They are not burdened with the need to be truthful and regularly use emotional appeals and sad photos to get money and support. I am monitoring events that are happening all over the USA. It is very sobering that such things can occur in America. Dog breeders & owners are having their 4th & 5th amendment rights abridged. Their animals are being confiscated and sold for a profit by rescue groups. 20/20 did an expose about it. http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=817494&page=1

Just in the last couple of days people in Fort Worth, TX woke up to animal control coming to arrest them and take their animals. Were they breeders? No. But these animal rights generated bills can jump up and bite everyone. Think you are safe? Laws are tricky things read this. (Please note that all the animals were stated to be healthy and in good condition. Better dead than fed = animal rights position)
http://www.star-telegram.com/metro_news/story/1504251.html
While I know that sadly some dog are euthanized that could live happy lives, the statistics of ones capable of being adopted are flawed as presented by people like HSUS & PETA. They fail to separate elderly, sick or dogs with bad tempers from the statistics. They fail to take out owner surrenders for euthanasia of elderly and sick animals. It has been shown over and over that education coupled with low cost spay/neuter can reduce pet over population.

I have done rescue and continue to do rescue that is breed specific. Rescue communities are not all created equal. There are some that vilify and attack breeders. Even the “puppy mill” push is aimed at all dog breeding under the guise of attacking sub standard commercial breeders. All commercial breeders are vilified because of a few that already fall under existing cruelty and USDA rules. Think that’s not possible? Read this: “What happened to Due Process?” http://bit.ly/OgiKK & Largest Commercial Dog Breeder in Canada Wins Lawsuit http://bit.ly/fA2ru

In this battle between animal rights and animal owners/breeders, the ones that are losing are the dogs. In LA,CA where m/s/n went into effect death rates have increased 177% Be careful what you wish for, you might get it. In the end no one should mandate a surgical procedure for our animals. It should be a choice in the land of the free.

I’m spending about 3 to 4 hours per day for free going through articles and newspaper reports about animal rights agendas and the effects it has had on breeders and animal owners. I’m monitoring legislative efforts all over the USA that affect animal husbandry of all types. Trust me it is frightening. “Don’t ask for whom the bell tolls….”

However, I am not against purebred breeders at all. Down here, the law is being enforced that dogs of their breed are allowed to remain in-tact, but others must be spayed or neutered. THIS I cannot argue with. I think part of that law includes that breeders are allowed to leave their dogs in tact. BUT no one goes around to see what constitutes a breeder. There could be puppy mills thinking that they fall under the category of this law. I think that if the dog isn’t being bred for temperament, health, soundness…then that dog should be spayed/neutered at the approriate age. There are just too many stupid people and suffering dogs out there ( I now own a couple).

Again, though, Maggie B is right. If you spay ALL the dogs…then there are no more dogs to breed. This means no more mixed breeds either, which some of us have come to know and love. Not to mention most shelters spay/neuter a dog WAAY too early which can cause health problems too (this I’ve seen first hand).

In my opinion it’s a double edged sword because although there are responsible pet owners out there, like ourselves, there are still the people out there who aren’t. And I suppose the old saying “one bad apple spoils the bunch” can be applied to this because we are being punished for other people’s stupidity…but how do we target all the ignorant individuals? You can’t, you have to target a population and hope it works on all the bad people too.

I’m also part of an Organization called Dog Scouts…for purebreds and mixed breeds alike…it was formed for people to join and promote responsible pet ownership. It has helped to educate A LOT of people on dog care and incorporates fun activites for your dog. We do free-shaping, obedience, clicker training, go camping, go hiking, go backpacking, go swimming, do agility, flyball, AND dock dogs. There’s an activity there for EVERY type of dog. I totally support this group because it isn’t saying “you must spay and neuter” it isn’t saying “bad shelters and SPCA” it’s saying “if you have a dog, be a responsible parent. Come and we’ll show you how.” It’s even fun for those of us who already know…and sometimes we even learn something NEW!

I’m for animal welfare. I want animals to be treated humanely. However, I’m opposed to animal rights as they seek to prohibit the use of all animals by humans. No more bacon, steak, companion dogs, police dogs, seeing eye dogs, hunting dogs, horses, etc.

Animal rights groups are considered animal terrorists in some guises. Such as ALF. ALF is the disguise that animal rights people use to hide their true affiliation with a more main stream groups according to some sources. They are listed as domestic terrorists by the FBI.

Mandatory Spay Neuter laws and restrictive breeding bills are not dissimilar to Breed Specific Legislation. They are based on emotion and misinformation rather than facts. They abridge our rights of animal ownership and unfairly victimize the majority that are innocent under the guise of fixing a problem.

Freedom belongs to those that have the guts to fight for it.

Exactly my point.

By saying breeders are solely responsible for all pet over population is pointing a finger at responsible breeders as well as the fellow down the road that lets his bitch in heat run free and get bred by every stray dog in the county. True he’s a breeder by default but he has nothing to do with me or with most show breeders. If his dog is running loose why aren’t the leash laws being enforced? Most areas have leash laws.

Pure bred animals typically have safety nets through breed specific rescue groups. They are often adopted more quickly. Just look at the dogs out of the puppy mill in NC where animal control is being overwhelmed with calls to adopt them. USDA currently monitors commercial dog breeders. If they were doing their job would there be bad puppy mills? There are laws why aren’t they being enforced? If current laws aren’t enforced what is the purpose of new laws?

In 30 years I’ve never had a dog get loose and run the road. I’ve never failed to take back a dog that needed to come back. Any dog I bred has the right to come home during its lifetime.

Before there were animal shelters in this area I would take side-of-the-road dogs home and rehabilitate them and re-home them out of my own pocket. I currently do breed specific re-homing. I helped organize and continue to run a dog club providing outlets for others to play with their dogs which helps prevent failure of the dog in the home. I provide a hot line to help others figure out how to manage dogs getting out of control.

Many serious breeders raise money and pay for research to develop genetic markers for genetic disease. My own club funded ataxia research and a marker has been developed recently for this disorder. AKC funds much research. Driving a stake through the hearts of breeders will lose much of value that can’t be readily replaced. They are the best source of good quality animals.

I used to raise money for rescue groups but NO MORE. My reward for that effort is that many rescue groups are turning on breeders and regurgitating all the crap from HSUS, Best Friends, SPCA etc. Welfare groups have been hijacked by animal prohibitionists. The chant is mandatory spay neuter and regulations on all breeders. All you have to do is go to their web sites. Surf around a bit and read their philosophy. Best Friends has a piece on their web site about Speciesism. Meaning that all animals have equal value – a dog = fish = chicken = man = animal rights or rather animal prohibition.

You can’t legislate responsibility. If you could no one would ever steal, or use drugs, or murder, or beat their wives. The only people affected by new draconian laws will be the responsible law abiding people. Me. I will be affected.

I read contracts for a living. Laws are written with an intent just like contracts. But I know that sometimes what you meant – exactly – is not what you said – exactly – in terms of affect. That’s why they have amendments. If you hamstring breeders for a few years their animals lose their fertility as they fight for their rights. We have enough laws to do the job. Why aren’t they being enforced?

Mandatory Spay Neuter will eliminate dogs. Period. Already dogs in some Northern states are so reduced in numbers that they have to import them from shelters in the South (and make money doing it) to meet the demand. It would make dogs so expensive that poor people wouldn’t be able to have them. Dogs transported to other states currently sell for a minimum of $300.00 – mostly mixes.

All dogs were originally bred for a function. The Border Collie was bred to be a herding dog. By breeding for a function that desire is hard wired. With mandatory spay neuter there will never be another breed developed because those dogs would be forcibly altered. Carolina Dogs & Catahoula Leopard dogs would never have been developed in recent times. Squirrel dog fiests, lurchers etc would become illegal to own.

Scientists are still finding new uses for talented dogs as alerts for low blood sugar in their owners, or onset of seizures. Mandatory spay neuter eliminates all dogs from the gene pools except those that meet some arbitrary changeable registration rules. It in effect clear cuts the rain forest.

Under msn and proposed anti breeder laws, owners must relinquish the right to privacy and allow a representative of government (HSUS has volunteered to do this for free FYI) show up unannounced and go through anything they like in the home, personal papers, or in the kennel. They can decide they don’t like something and take all the animals. The costs of keeping an animal intact are excessive and subject to increase. Many would cease having dogs to continue to enjoy their constitutional rights against illegal search and seizure. Because someone somewhere let their dog run loose I should give up my right against illegal search and seizure and pay extortionist fees?

Two things are happening here: One HSUS and their ilk have gotten on board the money train. Look at the salaries they are paying their people. They give out jobs to politicians and others (incentives) and let them lead the good life. It is a business. The animal prohibitionists collect millions on disasters, sad doggie faces and hype. Often it is spin pure and simple. It serves the purpose of keeping baby in shoes and pushing an agenda of radical animal prohibitionists. It no longer is about welfare, it’s about money and a radical agenda. They feel burning down a building, threatening others, destroying others furs or way of life, even killing their animals is acceptable behavior. We’re not talking about responsible people capable of empathy or even following the law. They really don’t care about the animals or about other humans. They care about themselves and controlling others.

The desire to control the actions of another is a symptom of dysfunction. It is typical among adult children of dysfunctional families. We can’t control anything in this world but we can control our animals. Many people that gravitate to animals have this issue. This gives the illusion of control and makes the person feel safer. It is a coping mechanism that is no longer useful.

Control of self is the only control any of us really have. It is impossible to control other people, places, or things. That way leads to madness.

Freedom is more than having the right to keep your dogs in crates and go to flyball tournaments if you like. Freedom is also about letting others have rights as well. When we diminish the rights of another it can rebound on ourselves.

Animal Prohibitionists can have control of my dogs, my home, my family when they get control of my gun by prizing it out of my cold dead hand. I am committed, I and millions across this nation with me, against allowing our animals (dogs, horses, cows etc) to be abolished by agendas not fully understood by the masses.