This syndrome is the fear of actually having to answer questions in a public forum. It is sometimes displayed by people not wanting to be accountable, hiding behind someone else’s name, or using a false name when commenting on public forums such as this.
A good example of not wanting to be heard actually answer questions in a public forum is displayed by almost all that sit on the NAFA Board of Directors. God forbid, they might actually say something in public that some people might not agree with; or they might slip up and we in the flyball community might actually find out how they feel about an issue. After all, they wouldn’t want everyone to know what they are thinking.
The only time that you will find anything about what any of board members are thinking is to find some obscure line in board meeting minutes or buried in some chat transcript. I am glad to see that they are announcing on the NAFA web site the date and place of the next board meeting. I hope that people will actually attend but I doubt it. The apathy in the flyball community is staggering.
Apathy
You would think more people would be willing to stand up and actually say something. You can see by the 2007 NAFA Organization Update below that many people are participating in NAFA events. So why is there such a lack of concern in the flyball community when rule changes are being discussed, as on this blog? Of the 39 comments on my post Subtracting 5 Instead of 4, only 10 people carried out the discussion, and 1 of the 10 used a false name and email address; or, how about the lack of returned ballots when a delegate vote is called? I know this is just a dog sport but I’m sure that of 5,697 dogs that participated in NAFA flyball events last year there are many people out there that care about this sport. There is no excuse for just 56.81% of the ballots returned from a vote. We are not talking about individual people here we are talking about clubs, 358 clubs participated in NAFA tournaments. There should be 100% participation. If the clubs owners don’t care, they should pass the ballots out to the people that do.
2007 NAFA Organization Update
- During the 2007 racing year, NAFA had 342 tourneys hosted by 137 host Clubs and entered by 8360 teams from 358 Clubs
- 5697 different dogs participated in NAFA flyball events representing 146 breeds and earning a total of 14,096,020 points toward NAFA titles
- 3321 dogs earned 6079 titles during the racing year
- NAFA Flyball was played in 37 different states and provinces including the first tournament in Wyoming
- 16 Clubs hosted their first NAFA flyball tournament during the 2007 racing year
- Veterans was successful once again in its 2nd year during 2007 with 731 dogs running on 415 teams in 146 different events
Here’s an excellent example of apathy from people you wouldn’t expect:
Back before the candidate voting took place, one of the candidates sent out an email on August 2, 2007 to all of the NAFA Judges, wanting inputs from them. Here is a snippet…
… I would like to be better informed from all parties regarding what you experience over the years and what direction you would like to see NAFA move towards in the future. This would be helpful leading into the candidate web chats and leadership chats.
Each one of you, being a Judge for NAFA flyball carries a great responsibility of our sport. Without you, we would not have flyball. Your dedication to this sport is vital, no question about that. So, I’m writing to all the judges to get your individual insight about NAFA flyball….
The letter ended as such…
I understand that since I’m not a NAFA BoD member there might be some reservation. I promise that each one of your individual responses/discussions will be keep private, just between you and myself, as I value your trust and respect.
This seems like a reasonable request to me. Can you guess how many judges replied? Of all the judges, only 3 responded. How is that for apathy?
Responsibility
No one wants to take responsibility so he or she will use someone’s email accounts or make something up. They want to take cheap shots but don’t want to use their real name doing it. After all, what would their teammates think? It goes right back to the Flyball Paparazzi Syndrome. Stay anonymous at all cost because you wouldn’t want anyone to know how you actually feel about an issue. God forbid that someone might find out that you would like to try a U-FLI tournament or you might prefer one organization to the other. What would people think?
Larry
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11 comments ↓
Ok Larry, I will bite. I had been mulling over what I would want to add or say. As everyone who reads this, or the flyballdogs list, they know I have always been and am still quite vocal about issues. I have been called many names on the list - for outing facts - like when Springloaded ran a new WR and did not adhere to the rules by having their height dog measured(they forgot it’s height card), but waited until after clean up on Sunday to measure the dog - and then after two days of racing, the dog did not get it’s HC measurement - the measuing and supervising judge even verified this on the list. BUT, I was the evil troll to make such a post. But, others, who lets say are on the other side, were constantly “bashing” other teams about their measuring practices, dogs, etc. My point in that post was that teams are pushing measuring all over…and if the Chairman of the Board of NAFA’s team is doing it, well….
I have found that you have to have thick skin to debate hot topics; and that persons that are vocal on lists or blogs do not have the “bal**” to back it up in person. I however have no problem discussing things in person.
If I did not spend so much time and money on this sport, I don’t think I would care so much, but, as I have said in previous posts, my family spends ALOT of money to play flyball - from entries, to traveling to cost of upkeep of our MANY flyball dogs (food, vet, frontline, etc). So, I will not back away from debate on something that our budget could well be in the $20,000 range yearly if you account all of the above.
“…I have been called many names on the list - for outing facts - like when Springloaded ran a new WR and did not adhere to the rules…My point in that post was that teams are pushing measuring all over…and if the Chairman of the Board of NAFA’s team is doing it, well….”
Make sure you post all the facts, Jackie. Not just the ones that prove your view.
The Rules were adhered to. They did not “verify” the WR so, it’s like it never happened. No new WR.
Why no height card? ….because the dog was there without its owner. HC was with “dog owner” not dog.
The dog handler (not “owner”) had a painful knee injury. They were going to let the WR go. ….but, being full of pluck, decided to try to measure the dog at the last minute if the Head (supervising) Judge was willing to try. (He could have refused.)
The handler didn’t own the dog so she couldn’t get response from the dog like the owner could. She had a painful knee. She couldn’t bend down to steady the dog.
Jackie, all this proved was that it was bad luck for the team to not have the HD owner there. The only ones that it should matter to is Spring Loaded since they lost out on verifying a WR. ….unless, you are trying to prove that SL is pushing “measuring”. Then, the dog should be so well behaved that they could get their HC measure while staring at a cat in a snow storm with a complete stranger for a handler.
BTW….do you tell your readers that you were not at the tournament all this alledgedly happened? That all of the “facts” that you outed were given to you by somebody else?
Instead of trying to “prove” the evil doing of others, it would be refreshing to read a serious proposal that could be acceptable to the majority of NAFA’s delegates.
Chris, I don’t think it was evil…but, WHY could the dog not stand for it measured HC height? This IS Springloaded, we are not talking about persons that don’t train alot. The dogs should stand for anyone…face it Chris, if this had happened to a team that you were not favorable of, you would have been ALL over it.
I seem to recall your posting of congratulating them of a WR run..and measuring was done after the fact, not immediately after the race - as it should have been. You were not there either
The facts were supported by the judge…I was not there, but who do you think I heard it from?
I don’t think training a stand for measuring is evil at all, those are entirely your words. I think there needs to be a better system of measuring.
Chris,
I agree with Jackie. Any other team and you would have been blasting them on the list and everywhere else. I also have heard the story direct from a person there and what Jackie says is true. I am sure there were other people that were there on the Springloaded team that could have stood the dog for measurement so the person with the bad knee wouldn’t have had to do it or that person could have sat down instead of kneeling. It doesn’t have to be the handler….and if they handler had such a painful knee injury how were they running the dog in the first place? Just wondering out loud.
Larry, I think part of the reason people aren’t willing to take a public stand on ANY issue is that flyball is actually a very small world. Dog sports in general is really a small world. Everyone knows everyone or knows of someone who knows of someone else. Unfortunately, sides have been “drawn”. I, personally know people who dislike teams merely because they run UFLi. I have heard team members, who have never actually spent more time around these teams than in the lanes once or twice, say hurtful things and not even know if those things are true. Reputations are created and gossip is spread. It is RARE that someone gives the benefit of the doubt to ANYONE in flyball, or at least to any of the teams in Division 1. It takes a special kind of person to say what they will and stand up for what they believe in. It almost is “who are you friends with?” before an opinion is formed about your integrity. I also know that friendships have been ruined by flyball, and “if you are friends with that person, you cannot be friends with me” has been said or implied.
As far as the height dog measuring controversy, I think it is the feeling that the measuring isn’t applied fairly that upsets some in the community. I know that of all the teams currently in the 15 second club in either NAFA or Ufli, I have heard from some team that the height dog wasn’t measured correctly. The accusation are that those teams purposely cheated to get those measurements. I personally believe that envelops were pushed–who doesn’t want to get the lowest measurement that can be obtained. If you have a friend measuring, you will get the benefit of the doubt–that is human nature. If you dislike a team, you go the other way with benefit of doubt– again human nature. It’s too bad there isn’t a system out there that takes the human element out of the equation. So far, that hasn’t happened. Some can say it is jealousy, but if that many teams are questioning the measurements then it needs to be examined. I don’t know which method is “better”, I am not advocating one system over another, but enough people are upset, that the “this is the way we have always done it” isn’t good enough
I started in NAFA 9 years ago, and miss it. The region I am in is not very friendly, unless you believe in only NAFA and only the way they want you to play. It’s sad, because I played agility for 10 years and competed in USDAA, AKC, NADAC, and ASCA. Different venues offer different challenges–I found none were better than the other, but each had it advantages (and disadvantages). I want to play flyball with my dogs, I want to run fast and compete at a high level. I want fast teams to race, because that’s what make it fun for me. I don’t care the “venue”, but “my way or the highway” is hurting NAFA.
“I seem to recall your posting of congratulating them of a WR run”
NOPE. No WR. No congratulations.
“…face it Chris, if this had happened to a team that you were not favorable of, you would have been ALL over it. ”
” Any other team and you would have been blasting them on the list and everywhere else.”
I am “in favor” of all teams. I’ve never called into question any team concerning “their” measuring stands. I think you’ve got me confused with some other people who do call into question other teams.
“…I was not there, but who do you think I heard it from? ”
I haven’t got a clue who you heard it from. My point is that it is NOT the “whole story”. And, it never will be the whole story. The whole story doesn’t paint the picture you want to portray.
“…but, WHY could the dog not stand for it measured HC height? This IS Springloaded, we are not talking about persons that don’t train alot.”
Do you “remember” every lesson you were taught in school? Probably not. In fact, I’m willing to bet that everybody forgets alot of things they were taught just because they don’t “need” that information anymore.
Well, dogs “forget” too. Height card challenges were not adopted yet so, there was no reason to continue working the dog to stand for measuring after receiving that HC.
….and, no, I don’t know why somebody else on SL didn’t attempt to stand that dog. I’m not sure what that dog requires to be handled. But, I doubt if either of you knows either.
My point is that you have a preconceived idea of what should have happened at this tourney for this WR. Because that didn’t happen, you have your own “explanation” for why it didn’t happen. And nobody can present additional facts or alternative explanations that differ from yours.
“I don’t think training a stand for measuring is evil at all, those are entirely your words.”
You did use this incident to conclude that a team/handler is not standing their HD according to NAFA standards. That teams all over are doing it. I’m just saying that looking at all the facts, not everyone draws the same conclusion.
I’m also saying that repeating this stuff doesn’t solve anything. It may make you feel better that the truth is out there (your truth) but, it doesn’t resolve anything. I’d love to see something proposed that resolves these kinds of issues that the delegates could support. I don’t see that happening because I think that some don’t really want to resolve these issues.
So, somebody prove me wrong, please. Make a serious proposal that resolves the measuring issues that the NAFA delegates COULD support/pass/adopt, etc.
“You did use this incident to conclude that a team/handler is not standing their HD according to NAFA standards. That teams all over are doing it. I’m just saying that looking at all the facts, not everyone draws the same conclusion.”
This is NOT what I said. My statement was their are measuring “issues” starting at the top…and if the “top” team can’t even get a dog on their WR team(yes this dog was one the team that broke with WR the first time..) can’t get it to stand for it’s HC height, then there is a problem. This dog is being handled not just by it’s owner, but the team…so, should stand for the team members. I don’t care what height they are jumping, or not jumping, but, they are fast as hell no matter what.
And this is not just my version of the truth…they ran a WR time run, and did not get it, why, they did not have the height card, and they could not get the dog to stand. I don’t buy - “the dog forgot” I know who the judge was, and he said in his response post on the flyball list, he did not approve their stand. They tried 3 times. This is a team that can run a WR each and every time it races, I would think they would be better prepared, and expect it.
My orginal post was about the subject was simple stating measuring issues abound, remember I lived thru seeing judges being removed of their mesuring…and teams being sought after and having pictures of them standing dogs blasted all over the internet…these teams were made out to be the “only” ones…I wanted to point out that this is not the case. HOWEVER, because I was taking an unpoplar stand against a popular team..I was blasted.
Remember the judge back up and absolutely verified - “my version” of the truth.
I want to see something done with measuring…I have been barking about it for years. I think they need to evaluate, talk to the judges, competitors, and RDs. I have sent emails to the BoD and not gotten responses…so, I gave up long ago.
And btw - the congratulation came from a Van Wert, maybe it was your sister. Cause then I replyed that I would offer congrats, but…..(insert above scenario). Then you responded to me…”Jackie, why would you congratulate a team you never have congratulated before”
To which I responded…”yes I have” ” I have a litter mate to the height dog(the one in question), and have sent out a congrats from CA - the first time the dog was on the WR team”
I recall the exchange perfectly. So, the congrats was on the list…no one knew they did not get the WR time due to the measure, cause the measure occured after everyone left…
Not that this matters, and sorry for being nitpicky, but Chris likes to twist things around, and pull attention from the real issues.
“… the judge back up and absolutely verified - “my version” of the truth”
The judge verified the “facts” that the dog failed to stand so they could not get a measure. The judge did not verify your conclusions about what that failed stand meant. Conclusions are not facts anyway. The are hypothesis based on facts.
“This is a team that can run a WR each and every time it races, I would think they would be better prepared, and expect it. ”
Your “expectations” are not FACTS, Jackie. I can’t twist that. There has not been a WR set since July 16, 2005. That’s an awful lot of racing without a WR.
These “issues” blind people and block the resolution of the measuring controversies. It’s why there is “an elephant in the room.”
In all your communication to the Board, have you proposed something that is suitable for NAFA?
Is it something that the delegates could approve?
Until I see something like that, I won’t believe that anyone is serious about fixing measuring. I think they enjoy complaining about top teams too much.
Chris, you really do crack me up. For all your “do something good” you really don’t see the point in posts. I am not complaining about the top teams. I am simply pointing out that there is an issue with measuring that needs to be resolved. I do not think they should do what the other org is doing, but, I think the BoD needs to seriously look at measuing. It is obviously an issue that has come up, or else we would not have the Height Card Challenge rule. If the measuring is so fool proof, and perfect, you should be able to get the same measuement on your dog all the time…dogs being measured for WR runs should get measure their jump height…teams should not be suspended, judges should not be disciplined. This is a sport we are not paid for, a time to spend with our dogs, family and friends. We should not have to worry about “IF” our dog is going not settle down and “get” the desired measurment. Or, look suspiciously over at the other lane to see what the “other” dog is jumping. Or feel like you are being stared at, and your dog being compared. What fun is that?
Until there is consistant measuring in NAFA, it will continue to be fractured and a organization of haves and have nots.
And while I apprciate the 5 instead of 4, I think it might just lead to more issues.
Jackie,
I think you are so right about this on the issue and what this topic has turned into, which really wasn’t the topic of my original post. My original point on the post was the apparent lack of caring in the flyball community which affects everyone that plays in this sport, a climate where the NAFA Board members feel that they can’t discuss issues in an open forum, and a climate where people feel the need to hide their identities (or worse use someone else’s).
I value your input but I don’t see where he said she said gets anything accomplished so I’m ending this debate on this post. Chris will debate this until the cows come home and she will always be right in her mind. No one, not you or anyone else, will convince her otherwise.
Larry