Comments on: Large Chest Penalty http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/ i-Flyball Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:40:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Larry http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/comment-page-1/#comment-974 Larry Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:59:11 +0000 http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/#comment-974 I think you have missed the point. It's not only the depth of the chest it's the combination of deep chest and short legs that is the problem. You could have a dog with 6 inch legs measure 15 inches at the withers. Compare that to another 15 inch dog that has a shallow chest with longer legs. Both dogs will jump the same height jumps but the short legged dog is at a disadvantage. I think you have missed the point. It’s not only the depth of the chest it’s the combination of deep chest and short legs that is the problem. You could have a dog with 6 inch legs measure 15 inches at the withers. Compare that to another 15 inch dog that has a shallow chest with longer legs. Both dogs will jump the same height jumps but the short legged dog is at a disadvantage.

]]> By: Nathalie http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/comment-page-1/#comment-972 Nathalie Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:45:57 +0000 http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/#comment-972 Hi, I'm new here and just reading the comments. I'm not sure i understand what is the problem in regards to measuring. This all has to do with the height of the dog not how large the dogs chest is. If we were to lower a jump because of the dogs chest...then someone else will have a reason to lower the jump...where does it end???? I have a pug racing in NAFA and it seems just fine. Nat Hi,

I’m new here and just reading the comments. I’m not sure i understand what is the problem in regards to measuring. This all has to do with the height of the dog not how large the dogs chest is. If we were to lower a jump because of the dogs chest…then someone else will have a reason to lower the jump…where does it end????
I have a pug racing in NAFA and it seems just fine.

Nat

]]> By: Chris http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/comment-page-1/#comment-953 Chris Sat, 29 Dec 2007 14:01:28 +0000 http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/#comment-953 Judy, Thank you for confirming that. Since Todd presented the idea when I was in attendance at a meeting over three years ago, the make up of the NAFA BoD has changed. Todd, Glenn and Jeff have left the BoD and Mike, Dana, Lisa and Alisa have joined. The concept may be received very differently now then it was the first time. What I am asking is NOT that the NAFA BoD adopt "declare your jump height" but, conduct a scientific and independent poll to find out if there is any support for the idea by the flyball public. The Board might feel more obligated to conduct such a poll (NON-binding) if requested to do so by several people. Ideally, it would be hard to ignore if we had at least one club owner from each Region put their name to such a request. If it is denied and the Board doesn't even want to conduct a poll (not a "ballot" not an election) then I will make that public knowledge. This is a radical idea. It takes time to educate people and nurture support for something that is so different from what we've done in the past. chrisandblast@hotmail.com Judy,

Thank you for confirming that. Since Todd presented the idea when I was in attendance at a meeting over three years ago, the make up of the NAFA BoD has changed. Todd, Glenn and Jeff have left the BoD and Mike, Dana, Lisa and Alisa have joined. The concept may be received very differently now then it was the first time.

What I am asking is NOT that the NAFA BoD adopt “declare your jump height” but, conduct a scientific and independent poll to find out if there is any support for the idea by the flyball public.

The Board might feel more obligated to conduct such a poll (NON-binding) if requested to do so by several people. Ideally, it would be hard to ignore if we had at least one club owner from each Region put their name to such a request. If it is denied and the Board doesn’t even want to conduct a poll (not a “ballot” not an election) then I will make that public knowledge.

This is a radical idea. It takes time to educate people and nurture support for something that is so different from what we’ve done in the past.

chrisandblast@hotmail.com

]]> By: Judy http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/comment-page-1/#comment-952 Judy Sat, 29 Dec 2007 05:25:03 +0000 http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/#comment-952 Chris, This exact proposal (declare your jump height) has already been presented to the bod by past bod member Todd Morningstar. The bod showed no interest in it is my understanding. I also understand that it was originally Dan Phillips that presented the idea to Todd. Chris,

This exact proposal (declare your jump height) has already been presented to the bod by past bod member Todd Morningstar. The bod showed no interest in it is my understanding. I also understand that it was originally Dan Phillips that presented the idea to Todd.

]]> By: Chris http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/comment-page-1/#comment-950 Chris Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:09:09 +0000 http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/#comment-950 "If you think this is a decent proposal, I suggest NAFA have an outside source, not your site or anybody elses poll comeptitors to see what they would choose to jump." Julia, I DO believe this is a decent proposal. I believe that it is reasonable for NAFA to gather data to determine support for the idea that is independent of of my site or anybody else's. What I need is support from several individuals from different areas of the country that would be willing to put their name, Region and club affiliation on such a request to NAFA. One individual making such a request could easily be denied. Having several respected named individuals making such a request would receive attention. If you or anybody else would like to join me and petition the NAFA BoD to investigate support for my proposal, put "Declare Your Jump Height" in the subject line and please contact me at: chrisandblast@hotmail.com “If you think this is a decent proposal, I suggest NAFA have an outside source, not your site or anybody elses poll comeptitors to see what they would choose to jump.”

Julia,

I DO believe this is a decent proposal. I believe that it is reasonable for NAFA to gather data to determine support for the idea that is independent of of my site or anybody else’s. What I need is support from several individuals from different areas of the country that would be willing to put their name, Region and club affiliation on such a request to NAFA. One individual making such a request could easily be denied. Having several respected named individuals making such a request would receive attention.

If you or anybody else would like to join me and petition the NAFA BoD to investigate support for my proposal, put “Declare Your Jump Height” in the subject line and please contact me at:

chrisandblast@hotmail.com

]]> By: Larry http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/comment-page-1/#comment-945 Larry Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:53:11 +0000 http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/#comment-945 "Anyone else have any feelings about why the BOD may have poo-pooed this idea (other than cost)?" I have some limited information on this but I'm still working on the details. Right now I don't think there was a formal proposal. I will let you know as soon as I have more information. “Anyone else have any feelings about why the BOD may have poo-pooed this idea (other than cost)?”

I have some limited information on this but I’m still working on the details. Right now I don’t think there was a formal proposal. I will let you know as soon as I have more information.

]]> By: Judy http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/comment-page-1/#comment-944 Judy Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:50:19 +0000 http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/#comment-944 I have also heard of this electronic measuring system. My problem with it is the fact that I have watched dogs walking up to the wicket and be visable shrinking as they get close and then growing taller as they leave. What is to prevent this happening with the electronic system? Also with the electronic system what part are you going to measuring when they are walking? Hairy dogs are going to be very hard to measure when walking. What is needed is something that is not trainable. The leg measurement in U-Fli works well because there is no training, no variable, no way of changing it (unless you want to do surgery to shorten their legs), and less stress for all. I have talked with quite a few people on fixes for this (including several vets and they have gotten experts involved) and haven't been able to come up with anything. I have also heard of this electronic measuring system. My problem with it is the fact that I have watched dogs walking up to the wicket and be visable shrinking as they get close and then growing taller as they leave. What is to prevent this happening with the electronic system? Also with the electronic system what part are you going to measuring when they are walking? Hairy dogs are going to be very hard to measure when walking.

What is needed is something that is not trainable. The leg measurement in U-Fli works well because there is no training, no variable, no way of changing it (unless you want to do surgery to shorten their legs), and less stress for all. I have talked with quite a few people on fixes for this (including several vets and they have gotten experts involved) and haven’t been able to come up with anything.

]]> By: BC-Rescue-Mom http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/comment-page-1/#comment-943 BC-Rescue-Mom Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:22:11 +0000 http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/#comment-943 I love the idea of an electronic measuring system and I agree that they should consider investing in 1 system to start and try it out. If it works then they can slowly purchase them for each region as they did with the EJS lights. I also like Julia's idea of using both the electronic measuring system along with having judges measuring as a form of judge training and a great check/balance and understanding of how the 'human factor' effects some dogs. Plus, let's face it, we still need to train judges to measure... the EJS system sometimes goes on the fritz as I'm sure the electronic measuring system will from time to time as well and it may be in the hands of humans at times. Anyone else have any feelings about why the BOD may have poo-pooed this idea (other than cost)? I love the idea of an electronic measuring system and I agree that they should consider investing in 1 system to start and try it out. If it works then they can slowly purchase them for each region as they did with the EJS lights. I also like Julia’s idea of using both the electronic measuring system along with having judges measuring as a form of judge training and a great check/balance and understanding of how the ‘human factor’ effects some dogs. Plus, let’s face it, we still need to train judges to measure… the EJS system sometimes goes on the fritz as I’m sure the electronic measuring system will from time to time as well and it may be in the hands of humans at times.

Anyone else have any feelings about why the BOD may have poo-pooed this idea (other than cost)?

]]> By: julia http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/comment-page-1/#comment-942 julia Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:55:29 +0000 http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/#comment-942 I would LOVE to put such a method to the test. Is that what somebody meant when they mentioned the laser method to me? Also, wouldn't that get rid of the "human" factor mentioned above? Might be nice for our poor war ravaged judges. They could prove consistency in the method in but one hour at one tourney. Seems like investigating such a system would, logically speaking, reduce the variables dramatically which means more consistent measuring. Is it really just totally cost prohibitive? Anybody know how much it might cost to build such a system? If NAFA makes enough to revamp the EJS system, I don't see why they wouldn't investigate this system and then invest in it if it yields more consistency in measuring. It sounds like it reduces the "human" wariable. It could be easily evaluated for comparison if enough judges were at a tourney to measure with the wicket and then compare it against measurements obtained with this method. Yes, this sounds like an idea quite worthy of consideration. After all, this constant concern over measuring for those of us with height dogs may lead to staying home just to avoid the whole thing. Just doesn't seem worth the stress, especailly if they will have a jump height of 12 inches today and 10 nches tomorrow. If it truly is a more consistent method, it might actually SAVE NAFA more money than that lost in revenues from the worn out and frustrated height dog competitors. I would LOVE to put such a method to the test. Is that what somebody meant when they mentioned the laser method to me? Also, wouldn’t that get rid of the “human” factor mentioned above? Might be nice for our poor war ravaged judges. They could prove consistency in the method in but one hour at one tourney. Seems like investigating such a system would, logically speaking, reduce the variables dramatically which means more consistent measuring.

Is it really just totally cost prohibitive? Anybody know how much it might cost to build such a system? If NAFA makes enough to revamp the EJS system, I don’t see why they wouldn’t investigate this system and then invest in it if it yields more consistency in measuring. It sounds like it reduces the “human” wariable. It could be easily evaluated for comparison if enough judges were at a tourney to measure with the wicket and then compare it against measurements obtained with this method.

Yes, this sounds like an idea quite worthy of consideration. After all, this constant concern over measuring for those of us with height dogs may lead to staying home just to avoid the whole thing. Just doesn’t seem worth the stress, especailly if they will have a jump height of 12 inches today and 10 nches tomorrow. If it truly is a more consistent method, it might actually SAVE NAFA more money than that lost in revenues from the worn out and frustrated height dog competitors.

]]> By: Jackie Gillies http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/comment-page-1/#comment-941 Jackie Gillies Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:05:58 +0000 http://www.flyballblog.com/large-chest-penalty/#comment-941 Don't get me started on lights! :) But, I would think at least a trial verison should be explored...and then have one for each region - (as there should be a set of lights for each region - housed with the RD). Don’t get me started on lights! :)

But, I would think at least a trial verison should be explored…and then have one for each region – (as there should be a set of lights for each region – housed with the RD).

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