You make the call
This issue has been batted back and forth now ever since the announcement of the Open Class and Performance team was introduced this year.
The issue is whether Open Class teams should compete in the same division as Regular Class teams. The way the rules were written, Open Class teams can only compete against other Open Class teams and Veterans Class teams.
My contentions is that running Open Class teams against Regular Class teams seeded for the same division would enhance the competition between the like teams even though the Open Class team earns no tournament points or placement in the tournament. The dogs thrive on the competition just as much as the people do.
Larry
You Make the Call - Should Open Class teams be allowed to run against Regular Class teams?
- 1. Yes (81%, 43 Votes)
- 2. No (15%, 8 Votes)
- 3. Not Sure (4%, 2 Votes)
Total Voters: 53
Loading …It is really sad but I had to close the poll because I found that someone was voting numerous times. Getting your coworkers to vote for you is unfair and childish.
You Make the Call - Would you like to have your questions or problems answered in the poll? Just send me the all the details using the contact form and I will do the rest.
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6 comments ↓
With one ammendment I think open should run in regular divisions, earn no tournament points, but still get to place in the tourn. Yeah I know I don’t need anymore dog toys, but it’s nice to get a little recognition when you win.
I love the way pick-up teams work in U-fli. I wish NAFA had adopted the same or a similar method.
For some perspective…
Barkin In Memphis 2007 (U-FLI).
Saturday
23 Teams ttl, 4 P/U Teams, 4 Divisions.
Standard Teams D1(4), D2(3), D3(3), D4(5)
P/U Team in D2(1), D3(1), D4(2)
Ttl/Division: D1(4), D2(4), D3(4), D4(7)
Sunday
18 Teams ttl, 4 P/U Teams, 3 Divisions.
Standard Teams D1(5), D2(4), D3(5)
P/U teams in D2(2), D3(2)
Ttl/Division: D1(5), D2(6), D3(7) - D3 SRR
Format DRR except as noted (Relying on memory).
By my count, running P/U teams with Standard teams resulted in Standard teams running a combined 16 more races over the weekend.
I do not know the seed times of the P/U teams, but can deduce something to the order of 18(1 team), 20 (1 team), 23+(2 teams).
As NAFA instituted the P/U team concept, Open would have been running anywhere from 18 to 23+ in one bracket.
And Regular would have lost out on 16 races. Is this a big deal for small tournaments/regions with a low density of teams?
That is an interesting analysis, eli. But, it doesn’t tell me if those temporary teams had teammates that pulled out at the last second OR if these temporary teams were planned well in advance.
As instituted by NAFA, Performance Teams work out the same way as Pick Up Teams do for U-FLI.
Adding the Open Class expanded the temporary team concept for NAFA competitors in that they can enter a planned “combined” team and race for wins and placements.
The criticsm seems to be that teams with much faster seed times will race against teams with much slower times. That can happen anyway, Open Class or not. Open Class cannot impact teams seeded in regular racing even if they were combined with regular racing, if they cannot earn placements. Teams seed times depends on how fast the dogs are that you have available to create a team.
In theory, temporary teams have a larger pool to draw from, ie that they can come from any club, not just your club. But, that “pool” is diminished somewhat because there is nothing in it to attract clubs that ARE racing for Regional Points. Racing on a temporary team that by definition, loses every heat, loses every race and finishes for no tournament placements will not attract them to enter “regular racing” as an Open Class team.
What about the rest of us competitors? I have talked to a number of people who said they would not “advance plan” to enter a team that could only place last, even if it won every heat in every race. These are people who race in Divisions 3, 4, 5 regularly. Performance Team racing alongside regular teams is acceptable for the “unforseen” circimstances. It is HARD to sell people the concept of “planned losing”.
The additional option of combining the Open Class w/Vets was made available because it is “unknown” how many entries the Open Class will attract. Combining Open w/Vets strengthened both of these classes. Additional racing is avaible to the Open Class by scheduling an elimination round w/Open Class teams after racing the Vets teams. So far, Open Class entries have stood well on their own but, we are only three weekends into the new racing season.
Which is why I urge TDs to offer the Open Class and wish people would enter the Open Class where offered. I don’t think it’s fair to criticize a concept before it has been given the chance to be tried and evaluated. I mean, a lot of people heavily criticized the new ideas in flyball created by U-FLI. Now, after evaluating these concepts, a lot of the ideas presented by U-FLI are gaining acceptence in NAFA. They were good ideas. They need to be tried. I want to hear from people who have actually entered the Open Class in NAFA, not from the ones who find fault with Open Class “in theory”.
Chris, you just did hear from someone who entered Open class in NAFA. But I am still new to the sport, less than three years. Point taken.
With all due respect, Performance teams do not compare to U-FLI pickup teams in terms of being able to race in a regular division.
“2. Conversion to Performance Team Entry.
With the permission of the Tournament Director for cause shown, a team entered in a regular or non-regular class may be converted from its original status to a Performance Team entry prior to the start of the tournament. The intent of this conversion privilege is to allow teams that have already entered a tournament but who, for unforeseen reasons, find themselves unable to field a complete team, to run for points with a dog or dogs from another club. “Cause” shall include but not be limited to circumstances such as dog injury, illness, or other unforeseen situation. A team may not enter a tournament as a Performance Team. ”
Why? Because as you can see from the rules, it is up to the TD to allow a “conversion” to performance. While it says circumstances not limited to …, those are still the guidelines a TD is going to use. Do you have an injured dog? Has half your teams handlers had an unforseen situation that other teams can’t help you run? Granted, the TD’s are going to want to make their tournaments a success, but since you CAN NOT ENTER as a performance team, but can only convert to it at the start of a tournament, I don’t see much use for it. Compare this to the U-FLI “Exhibition Team” which allows you to switch in the middle of a tournament: “exhibition teams are created after racing starts when regular or pickup teams have had a loss of one or more of their team dogs that prevents them from competing FURTHER (emphasis mine) in the tournament.”
While I do agree that open class teams should be able to compete in regular divisions, I am not overly put out by it if the Open class continues to be offered and supported and NAFA is unwilling to change the rules. It’s better than nothing. However, please don’t throw this “performance team” thing in our faces as a viable alternative. The circumstances in which it is useful are very limited and since they have to come about before the tournament starts, why bother. Granted, there will be some cases in which it is useful. The team’s only height dog gets sick or injured but everyone else still wants to race, etc. It doesn’t need to be done away with, but you can’t just choose to go as a performance team if open isn’t offered. Whereas, if this were parallel to the U-FLI model (and I haven’t been to a U-FLI tourney in over a year, so don’t take this as a soapbox for them), I wouldn’t have to look for a tourney offering open; I could just enter the regular class.
As has been stated before, it is hard enough to get tournaments to offer Multi, and now we have another class to accommodate. Wouldn’t it just be simpler all around to include open teams in regular divisions? The dogs don’t know they are not earning tournament points. One of the best flyball experiences I have had was running on a pickup team with TNT. I made new friends and had a lot of fun with some close racing. Even if you don’t get the tournament point, you still know who the faster team was.
I live in a region where we continue to lose traditional NAFA tournaments to U-FLI ones. This is not a good thing for us because we are not getting any additional tournaments that way. NAFA needs to be open (pun intended) to the flyball community’s reception of these new classes or they will begin to lose ground in other regions because clubs find the U-FLI rules more amenable. And if that happens in other regions the way it is here, it is not really a win for flyballers if the number of tournaments available does not increase, and we have fewer opportunities to play.
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