Can Open class (NAFA) and Pickup teams (U-FLI) cause some unintended consequences? Do these types of these entries cause the waiting period for changing teams to become a rule that’s no longer required? I would like to explore these questions and ask you for your thoughts.
Open and Pickup
The first time I was exposed to this type of entry was at a U-FLI tournament and I thought it was great. I had a young dog that was very close to running and I wanted to do some run backs with her. Unfortunately at the time, I had a very small team and had no place for her to run. I guess I could have had someone hold the dog I’d be running while I did a couple warm up runs with my new dog, but that is always difficult. So the Pickup team was just what I needed. I could run my new dog on a Pickup team and not have to worry about switching teams or a waiting period. My new dog even got a chance to run in a few heats so her first time running was on a Pickup team.
This experience made me a believer of the Pickup team concept and I was a real proponent for NAFA to put this concept into practice also. Since NAFA started the Open class during a trial period, I have run my dogs many times in that class and on Pickup teams and still do.
Unintended Consequences
Before these types of entries were created, if there were problems on the team like an argument or disagreement, the majority of the time it was worked out and the team stayed together. Granted, at times, working out a difficult argument or disagreement may not have been possible but from my experience you were more likely to stick it out and try to get over the problem. After all, most people would try to avoid the waiting time required to run on a new team so they were more likely to give it one or more chances before switching teams.
The unintended consequences of these new entries are to allow people to jump ship at any time. If you have a problem, there is no need to work it out, just switch teams by running in Open class or a Pickup team. If you have enough people willing to jump ship, just create a new team and enter your new team in Open class or run as a Pickup team and there’s no wait required.
Why Have a Waiting Rule?
I really have no answers because I’m torn between my likes and dislikes. I like being able to run dogs from other teams together but I also hate the fact that my whole team can dessert me over a minor disagreement.
In October, one of my dogs will be running in Memphis on a Pickup team with her littermates (all from other teams) and her sire. How neat is that? Without a Pickup team or Open class this would not be possible. However, having six people just leave your team over a stupid disagreement, not even try to work out a compromise, and be running the next weekend is hurtful! Why have a waiting rule at all?
I would like to hear what you all think of this? Do you have any solutions? Should we just press on from here and do away with the waiting rule?
Larry
20 comments ↓
Sounds like you had a really bad experience if six people left. However, I love the concept of open teams, at the moment. In New Mexico, there are only two teams in the state, so “we’re going to take our toys and leave” doesn’t work real well. I loved being able to go up to Colorado and run on an open team with my dogs the other weekend. There was no way I could talk my whole team into going and I was going stir crazy with no tournaments.
It might make it a little easier for some people to bail as soon as there is an issue, but, unless they’re the ones with the training equipment, they have to find someone to get along with at some point.
Perhaps the concern that you are feeling could be addressed by requiring that open teams consist of at least two members currently registered with two different teams, or simply not awarding points to dogs or teams for open teams - consider them “for exhibition only.”
Thanks for your comment Diana!
I have received email and private comments on this issue and even though I have some experience with some people leaving my team I chose to keep the commenter’s name and team private. However, I will say that one of the comments I received was that people left the team in the middle of the tournament. The person that told me about this wanted to know if this is “happening more with the advent of the open teams?” So I’m passing on the question.
With regards to team switching my experience is that if someone has an issue it is usually just a matter of time before they finally bail and play elsewhere. Months of accommodation and attempting to address their concerns only cause new concerns to be brought forth and they are really never satisfied. The “working it out” you achieve is surface, the dissatisfaction continues to fester and the tension on the team continues. Tension on a team makes the flyball experience suck for all involved.
For the majority of a team to bail in the middle of a tournament must have been a situation where there was a great amount of tension for months prior and it all came to a head…. I doubt such an incident can be blamed on the creation of open class.
The size and health of a flyball team ebbs and flows over the years. It is a rare team that can keep up a healthy membership for many years in a row… dogs grow old and retire, people’s life activities change, others move on to other hobbies and explore other life experiences. The open and pick up concept allow team’s that may be in their “ebb” stage to maintain until recruitment picks up again.
I LOVE the Open Class and compete in it regularly. However, I do believe that the waiting Rule should stay because it is there for a different purpose/goal in racing competition.
The Open Class is there primarily for folks who do not intend to compete for Regional Points/Championships. If you run in the lower Divisions, you don’t really care if you are running in a class that is eligible to earn Regional points. The Open Class allows you the freedom to run with any group of dogs or people. ….for any purpose!
An example is my dog, Strut. She has many siblings that also play flyball and I talked it over with her breeder about doing an all “Jiffy Pup” team. (The mom is named JiffyPop) Anyway, for us, this “Dream Team” team is not about winning or speed. It’s about showcasing an entire family of incredible performance dogs.
I do respect and admire the teams that race in the top tier. In fact, we often find ourselves in 4 Breed (Mixed) Div 1. That’s because we love the challenge of racing 4 Breed and have managed to attract some very talented dogs to our team because of that. ….but, it would “dilute” the pleasure we get from meeting that challenge if all we had to do was lobby the very best 4 breed competitors to race with us and compete for Regional points immediately.
Championships should not be “easy” to get. They should represent extrordinary effort and preparation.
Frankly, I think the Open Class can help teams who may have internal problems to stick together. Used properly, it can provide a “cooling off” period while a club explores ways to compromise and bridge gaps. I think individuals who leave their club do so because they see no solution for their problem. In fact, leaving may be the only solution. We need to stop believing that somebody deciding to leave their club is a “bad” thing.
We also need to remember that the “waiting rule” was NOT meant to punish individuals for leaving a club but, to protect clubs that were working hard for Regional points from being undermined by people who would scheme to bring in “ringers” on their club and create speedy dream teams.
……….Chris
I’m not saying that leaving a team is a bad thing. In fact, it may help to expand the sport in the long run even if in the short team it hurts one team and helps another. I’m just saying that now instead of working out some differences it is much easier to leave a team than ever before.
You make a good point about keeping the waiting rule to protect clubs vying for regional placement. However, it really doesn’t have the same meaning or effect in U-FLI.
I suspect that the ability to form Open teams in NAFA actually prevents more “jumping ship” than it does enable it.
Imagine that you like your current team and are generally satisfied with your captain’s/owner’s decisions regarding the team philosophy that “everyone gets to play”. Occassionally, joining an Open team allows you to get that “fix of speed” you need every once in a while. The result is that you get satisfied and you didn’t need to leave your team to do it.
Or, say your dog is reliable but not incredibly fast. There are only enough members available to send one team to a particular tournament and this time your dog isn’t one of the chosen few. That decision is okay by you, but you’re really jonesin’ for a flyball fix and are bummed that you have to stay home. Then you find out that another club is forming an Open team and would love a reliable, if not that fast, dog to join them. You get your flyball fix and remain happy.
In both those scenarios having the option of joining an Open team allowed you to play when you otherwise wouldn’t. In both scenarios, you were generally pleased with your clubs philosophies and captain’s decisions but in the few instances you weren’t, the Open option enabled you to fulfill your personal goals without conflicting your team’s goals.
Yes, if you are generally unsatisfied with the way your club is run, constantly running on Open teams isn’t the answer. If club dynamics allow it, form another team within your club that shares your views. If that isn’t possible find another club whose philosophy allows you to fulfill your personal goals. But tell me, how are you going to know you’ll mesh well with a new group?–running with them a couple of times in Open could help you answer that!
So, if you aren’t considering leaving your team, but just want a different flavor every once in a while, the Open option is valuable. If, before you decide to leave your current club, you want to find out if the “grass is truely greener” somewhere else, the Open option is valuable. Will some abuse the Open option and take advantage of the loophole it can create in forming a new team without having to abide by the waiting period rule? Probably, but I feel that the option to join an Open team does far more to enable the vast majority of club members to stay satisfied and happy with their teams than it does to harm the sport.
ok…..maybe I am being “simplistic” in my explanation. I have witnessed MANY club breakups and most of them are more complex than this discussion. ….but, you are right in that the majority of them usually involve one segment of a club utilizing whatever “power” they perceive they have to maximize the negative impact on the group they leave behind.
They are the ones who own the equipment or the practice facility. …..or, they own the Height Dog(s). ….or, they own the “speed” dogs. They control whatever “resource” that the club needs to fulfill its goals/philosophies, etc.
Yes, I’ve witnessed walkouts DURING a tournament. I’ve watched en masse exodus of a team because they could longer stomach their captain. ALL THIS in the days BEFORE the Open Class and Performance Team options were adopted by NAFA.
So, I asked myself “What is the impact on our sport if people no longer have to wait to play?” I’ve decided to look back on the some of the ugly history of team breakups to answer this and here is what I’ve concluded: The ones who try to do the “hurting” of the ones they leave behind have LESS ability to do so.
If you leave with a club’s only “Height Dog(s)” the club you leave can solicit a HD from somewhere and continue on in Open.
If you take the speed dogs that they need to earn points, they can solicit speed dogs and continue on in Open.
If you mutiny against the Captain and leave en masse, all the “Captain” has to do is find some friends to play with his/her dogs and enter Open. They can even salvage an entry in a tournament by contacting the TD and declaring they are running Performance.
The people who leave have less clout now that the people they intend to leave behind have more options available to them to continue.
So, I haven’t heard of a team breakup since Open/Performance came into effect. I think its TOO SOON to conclude that Open/Performance has had an impact on this issue. What I want see is WHEN there is a breakup, how the affected club utilizes these options.
……..Chris
I have witnessed a break-up. One month ago, immediatly after a tournament, two members informed their club that they would be leaving. In a few weeks they are sharing a spot on an Open team with members from my club. No lines, no waiting. Their former club has solicited some other dogs for an Open team of their own and will probably continue to do so until they build up their membership.
Could one aspect of the issue be solved if the governing body were to require that club owners keep current listings of all members in good standing and then adopt a rule that “in order to be eligible to compete in an Open team, a person must be a member in good standing with a registered club? Think about it, if you up and leave your club and take your height dog with you, you would no longer be a member in good standing and, therefore, ineligible to run on an Open team. You would have to join a new team and, thusly, be subject to the waiting period.
I, personally, love the concept of the Open team.
I left my team last October. The Open team allowed me to continue running my dogs. However, that was not my thought when I left. I left my team because I and my dogs were no longer valued as members. I had planned on returning to the team that trained me - even if it meant I had to wait 90 days before running again. But, having the Open team option was wonderful. At the time, I had a new dog I had just got up and running and I was afraid the 90 days could hurt his progress.
The Open team may indeed cause more people to leave their clubs, but perhaps that is for the better. If they are truly unhappy, it might be best they leave and find a better place for them instead of staying, grumbling, and making everyone else’s life miserable.
In the end, some members from my old team did decide to leave with me and we did create our own team. Orginially, we used the Open team to help us out. Not only did we get the chance to begin running teams right away, but we helped other new teams out. We did not have enough dogs for two teams, but too many for one team. So, we began contacting folks elsewhere for additional dogs. Thanks to the Open team, we’ve made new friends with people we hardly knew before. We’ve also helped another new team get up and running.
The Open team is a great resource for those clubs who are just trying to get started - have two solid dogs, and two greenies, but can’t run a ful team. It is also wonderful for those teams whose members don’t live close together. Teams can attend tournaments without the others if no one else can make it.
Not always the clearest (running on little sleep at the moment), but hope this all made sense.
My thoughts on Open/Pickup are similar to Ellie’s. The timing and reasons are almost identical.
We have been running Open since inception, we have been running because Open and our “foster club” made it possible.
On the other hand, Open and Pickup are not exactly the same.
When I first saw Larry’s “Ringer” post, a personal experience came to mind. But his subject was different from mine.
In NAFA, a dog can be entered in Open class and in One other class, except Veterans.
Long story short: last race of the day in Open, one team had first place locked up, the other was the closest to being competitive with them.
The fast team lost the first heat, and switched out with a dog from their D1 team. The rest of the race was not competitive. This team has done it twice that I know of.
Open class is so rarely competitive in our region, as there is normally one division.
Otherwise, the “Pickup Team” concept rocks; we did not leave our former club and start a new one because Open came along.
U-FLI has Pickup teams and we would have access to U-FLI tournaments, just not as many as U-FLI and NAFA combined.
We were starting from scratch, and our RD took us under her wing. And we are getting close to flying.
I am not misrepresenting; I have benefitted from a dog being entered in Regular and in Open. But not in case a faster dog was “needed” for a meaningless race.
I like Open in NAFA but not necessarily how NAFA runs it in a separate division. Open has taken away from Multi in my area. Multi used to be much larger but now Open has taken a few teams away from Multi. My club does not use Open as it was meant usually. We field a club team in Open to help give us more options for backups. I know a club that depends on how Open to be able to run. I have offered up my dogs to other Open teams though. I think Open should stay in NAFA.
Pickup in U-Fli. I like it being run within the standard class. I like being able to run my dog wherever I want. U-Fli is not big in my area. So my only U-Fli is usually a 12 hour drive. I was part of the 1st ever all ACD team and it was awesome.
I don’t think Open and Pickup really give people the out to switch teams without having to sit out. I think if someone was going to leave, they will leave whether they sit or not. O/P gives people more opportunity to run their dogs that usually sit because there is not room for them. At leas that is how it is usually used in my area.
I Love the open concept. My club currently is short on height dogs and we just can’t accomodate everyone right now. Open allows me to continue to be competitive and also to hopefully do runbacks with my new dog. I really enjoy the laid back atmosphere with no infighting or club politics as me and members from two other clubs hung out and talked about the racing and the dogs. I also think that becoming an independent is not a bad thing. I am a shift worker and can’t always attend practises that I have paid for so alot of training is done at home. Open allows me to proof my work and to have my dogs be more rounded as competitors. If people want to jump ship then the issues were already in place and they would leave eventually. If you want to play and don’t want to committ to a club I think this is a positive thing and should be looked as as such. Not everyone is available to committ to a club and they become a detrament rather than an asset. Should you not be allowed to play because of this. I think not.
Indeed, many of the dogs my team has used to fill in our Open team were those dogs who would have had to sit out a tournament becuase their team had no room for them to play. We are a service to the Flyball community - offering room to run in exchange for helping us fill out an Open team.
….but, the question hasn’t been answered. Does Open/Performance make it EASIER for people to leave their teams?
Have there been more team breakups since Open/Performance was adopted?
Has it led to more team/club “instability” than we had before?
My Region (1) hasn’t had any team breakups in the last year or so. That doesn’t mean it isn’t happening elsewhere. So, we need folks commenting to tell us what’s happening in their Region and what Region they are from.
Thanks!
…….Chris
There have been team “splits” in our region, resulting in new clubs in places like Georgia and the Florida Panhandle. I can’t speak to the amiability of each split, but one I know of was due to a member moving away.
This club and others have taken advantage of Open to run with the previous club while getting their new club up and running.
To me, Open/Pickup is less about enabling breakups and more about flexibility and opportunity in running dogs and handlers that otherwise would be sitting out tournaments.
Rules governing Open/Pickup should be designed to encourage the team concept of flyball. And should be evaluated with respect to how well they promote and support that concept.
If Open/Pickup fosters breakups, then one might ask if the prospect of not being able to compete is an ethical tool to be used to retain members? Does a “my way or no way” environment foster the sport and its image?
Yes, the Open team allows folks to leave a club without waiting 90 days… but, is leaving a club ever easy?
Leaving a club isn’t easy. There are hurt feelings on both sides. Just because someone can now leave one team and run with another team or start their own team and run with it the next week doesn’t mean the leaving came easier or harder than it did when folks had to wait 90 days before running with the new club.
And, as for whether or not there are more breakups now than before, even if there are, that may not be a bad thing. Simple cells grow and multiply through the process of mitosis, in which cells quickly split and form a new cell, which then splits again and again. This process is which allows one simple cell to eventually become an infant within nine months. Flyball clubs are less complex than creating an infant from a single cell. So what if clubs are now splitting more easily or quickly and more new clubs are springing up than before. This is growth… this is what will eventually make Flyball as common a sport as Agility.
Having more clubs around in a given area helps make Flyball a household name. It also gives folks different choices. Each trainer is different. If you only have one team within an hour drive and you don’t like the trainer, what are the chances you’ll drive more than an hour to find someone else? Not me. And I know few others who would. Now, what if there are three clubs (two split-offs from the original club) in the same hour drive. You may not like one trainer, but love another. So, you join that club. Instead of losing folks to distance and training styles, you now gain new members that may have never played Flyball otherwise.
I mention all this because this is exactly what happened in my area. There used to be one club in the area. Now, there are three. One trainer/captain focuses more on speed and natural ability. Another trainer/captain is more interested in the status quo. The last trainer/captain is happy to train anyone and any dog despite natural ability or speed. Each club attracts different folks in the same area. Between last year and this year, there have been 9 new dogs registered in the area. This is the most growth in three years.
Instability can be good… it isn’t all bad.
In answer to your question. There have been no recent splits in my area. Everyone within the flyball community knows pretty much everyone else. There are some big clubs and some smaller clubs. All the clubs have their own agenda and the members can decide if they would like to continue supporting this philosophy or look at greener pastures regardless of open. I do think that circumstances of life may allow individuals to play in open alone and still be part of the sport and a solid communication system will be key. I don’t think that being made to wait three months to join a new club makes a whole heck of a lot of difference except maybe in deciding when you are going to leave a club. Most clubs would like to have you participate in their practises and get to know their members anyway. Making a commitment to a club or playing in open I think are unrelated. Most people make commitments to the club because they like the people ,if your that competitive than play in open, chances are you may not fit with any group but, still have great dogs that love to race.
We had a very large team split into 3 clubs + the original remaining. We waited to make the split until an appropriate time frame allowed us to have the waiting period, though in our region, there is a lag in tournaments between November and February usually, so it was perfect. We didn’t break “early” because open was available, we waited for a natural break to do so. We “worked” on most of the issues, and had our break amiably with the original team. We still run open with the original club when help is needed, we help pass call, box load and share help all the time.
If anything, potentially the advent of open may provide a way for splits to happen much more “amicably” than previously. If members are not forced to wait three months to continue running their dogs they may be able to have less hard feelings about a split, work out some of the issues, and continue to help each other after the split.
Also, open is helpful in a situation where a captain may be heavy handed with a club and dismiss some members. These members would not be forced to wait to continue playing after such an incident. I don’t think members should be punished from continuing racing just because they have had a disagreement with a club owner.
Chris asked: “Have there been more team breakups since Open/Performance was adopted?”
Yes there has been 2 team splits in our region since the open rules came into effect. One of them ran open within a month and half after the split.
Thanks Judy. …but, I’d like more information.
When I asked, “Have there been more team breakups since Open/Performance was adopted?” …I meant in comparison with team breakups BEFORE Open/Performance was adopted.
So, in past years, how many breakups was typical in a racing season in your Region? was it less than two?
And, just to be fair and true to Flyball History, how many teams in your Region found it easier to split up when you could apply to NAFA for EXCEPTIONS to the (then) 6 month waiting rule? (You know, your team dissolved or you moved to a different Region or a NEW team was forming that had never raced.)?
If the Open/Performance option did not exist, would these team splits that you mention …would they have stayed together and worked it out? (In your opinion. I don’t know the actual circumstances these splits occurred)
THANKS for your comments!
………Chris
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