First, let me say thank you to Larry for giving me access to post topics. I will start off by a less controversial topic as this is my first ever blog entry as the topic starter. Down the road I promise to think of something that will get the juices flowing. Shoot, even this topic could get heated depending on how strongly people feel only dogs that can run full time without issues and without fear of the dog shutting down.
So I would like to hear more about how everyone tries to help their dog(s) overcome fears so they can participate in flyball. This is a topic dear to my heart since I have a border collie that has many fears.
And if you feel you have exhausted your options and your dog is still not comfortable when do you finally say enough is enough and retire them? How long do you work on trying to make flyball fun for them? What if the dog shows some promise and is seemingly starting to enjoy the sport at times, do you continue working with said dog?
Basically, what have you done to try and help a dog overcome their fears and when do you finally just give up and allow the dog to be a loving pet only?
Kim
Related Post:
15 comments ↓
Kim, I rescued a JRT that was just a mess when I got him. fear agressive, had never been played with - didn’t even know what a ball was and was overwhelmed with the intensity of a tournament enviorment. We went very slowly from the very basics… catch your kibble to catch a little ball etc. He is very food motivated so that made training easier. There was a time when I’d sit in the line up with him in cowering in my lap petting and praising to keep him from shutting down. Lots of praise and lots of love and lots really great treats… real chicken, oh, and the “power of cheese” worked best. He is now a steady height dog, if not very fast, but so proud of himself when he runs.
Melatonin works wonders for Dogs. It eases all sorts of fears and anxieties. From personal experience it is excellent on noise anxiety from thunder and fireworks.
It’s a natural chemical found in all living things, there are few -if any- side effects, it’s not a depressant or a sedative. It simply prevents the dog from entering a flight/fight level of fear.
I found out about it when one of my dogs went from nervous at fireworks to chewing through a hollow core door during one Fourth of July. The next year, with melatonin, he was aware and anxious, but didn’t bolt and didn’t panic. After a few more thunderstorms with melatonin, he was aware but didn’t care. The next Fourth, he was calm and had a normal pulse, wasn’t panting or anything.
It’s my observation that BCs and other flyball prone dogs will learn and reinforce fears. When the dog is fearful, calming them and reinforcing the reaction can look a lot alike. And no one wants to punish or ignore a dog that is in distress. Perhaps some of the better trainers will have a training answer, but I’m prone to fight biology with biology.
We’ve bred these dogs to be aware and attentive and reactive. It’s hard wired in their brains. That’s why I like Melatonin. It’s a safe and natural neurotransmitter that is highly studied in humans and is widely reported to be effective in dogs. It cuts fear.
Since it’s my general observation that people hold their dogs to a higher standard / quality of life … i.e. most dog sport people I know feed their dogs better foods than they eat, keep their dogs in better shape than they are, take their dogs to the Vet more than they go to the Doc, issues like medication seem to be controversial.
For instance, one of the people who runs a club in a dog sport I’m in works in a holistic vet office. They are off on the new age organic natural kick, which in my opinion is mostly BS. Any way, this person recommends aroma therapy and other “natural” plant extracts and thinks that melatonin is “medicating” your dog.
Sadly, several members in the group have followed her advice on plant extracts and aroma therapy and gotten no results. All four of them who have used Melatonin have beaten the problem cold. The leader lady still keeps her dogs in cages at events and they’re snarly and over-reactive. The Melatonin crew can keep our dogs free and under control and don’t have barking and snarling incidents, no submissive peeing or loose stools, no panic mode.
Go ahead and try training, plant extracts, and aromatherapy and even acupuncture. When you finally get serious about wanting results, spend $5 at your local vitamin store and give Melatonin a try. Talk to your vet about it and feel free to search google for dosing, but I have yet to find a better solution and I doubt one exists… I mean, it’s cheap, easy, effective, safe. Where’s the downside?
I think every dog is different…if you have a dog so fearful that they can’t redirect their attention to playing ball or tug with you, you might need to let them lay on the couch.
I have had two rescues, one that I decided wanted to stay home - despite her speed and love of the tennis ball. She would hide under the deck when we were packing up for practice or tournaments, and I would have to drag her out. I decided that she was happier staying home with the dog sitter, than going thru the stress of traveling and being out of her element.
The other, was a neglected, abused Mal. She was basically like a feral dog when we got her. HER love for learning how to tug and play ball had her completely over her fears in 6 months - she runs an average of 3.8 - and is a machine.
I do alot of rescue work, and the most important thing is to not encourage the fear, and by that I mean, ignore it. Don’t consol it by saying “it’s all right” just keep moving forward. I have seen more people create more issues for their dogs - dog fear issues by scooping up their dog when another approaches, which is telling the dog - “danger” Dogs are very easy to figure out, they like structure, disipline and consistancy. You can’t emote, as they don’t emote they same way we do. And when we emote, the fearful dogs pick up on it and respond.
So what techniques do you use at practice to help create a more confident dog?
I have played games of just tugging, treats, etc… I have done just recalls which she loves, I have started to play fun games at the box (her worst fear area), basically just breaking up all aspects, I signed her up for agility which she likes, at home I make her check out her fears of things, etc… Tempe is afraid of things in hands, barking, changes in anything, etc…
She actually drags me into the building now for practice. A few months back Tempe was really in the butterfly zone running and hubby did not see her run for awhile - then 2 months ago he saw her again and was amazed at the difference and asked if I switched dogs on him.
I have her signed up for a flyball seminar in April.
I have given myself and Tempe until Dec to either really show promise and the ability to run full time or I will retire her.
Back in Nov at the U-Fli champinships she was a backup on a team and had to come in without warmups. She messed up some (my fault not doing warmups) so as I went to rerun her the box judge stood up and walked right in front of Tempe at the box. Tempe was done for the weekend. That freaked her out horribly. I did bring her out for warmups and she was happy again in the runback but I chose not to run her again in competition. At the next practice when we got home she was fine again.
She can pass any dog, take an early pass, can run into all the jumps and keep on going but add a person doing something weird near the box area and she is done. We are working on this more. She even looks happy running in practice but like I said, if by December she can’t run reliably in a tourney or be on the verge of it, I will retire her.
It is hard to decide when to say when.
Kim,
What about the box scares her? Is it the strange person behind the box, or the sound of the box?
And how long has she been playing?
Jackie
Jackie - it can be the people in the box area (at times you can have as many as 10 or more people back) getting ready for their races, the box movers, the people back there with dogs - it can be noisy and is just different than what we can simulate in practice - it can be the line judge holding a clipboard during recalls…
Needless to say she can be freaked by who knows what at times. Sometimes she is good for 3-4 races and then all of a sudden is aware of what is going on…
Tempe was 2 in Oct hence why I pulled her from competition until I can either build her confidence or until I retire her. I would hope by the time she is 3 yrs old she is showing her want or not of wanting to compete. The sad thing is - even with Loping to the box - hauling but back to me - she can run 4.6-4.7 - I can only imagine what she would do if she was more comfortable going to the box…
Ok, this is what I would do…when you can, sit at the box area with her at tournaments. If she starts freaking, just ignore her or try to distract her with treats, toys, tugging. If possible, have another dog that is “SPUN” with her. She will learn from the other dog. I would stand or sit with both dogs…one that is just crazy and ignores all the “things” going on.
Keep running her, but only put her in for 1 or two heats. Pull her, make her want more. You will know when you walk her to the ring, what dog you have. If she is being freaky, crate her ringside. Have her watch what is going on. Always crate her ringside when you pull her. Don’t coddle her being afraid. If she starts freaking, just put her in the crate and focus on the team. Sometimes the more attention we put on trying to calm them, creates more neurotic behavior.
I, too, have a fearful dog. He’s a sighthound, so for some, that might be enough to give up, but I beleive in working through our problems.
It has taken him over a year to even get in the lane and run. He has had to overcome “velcro” issues, dog fear issues, lack of ball interest, loud noises and quick movement. However, he still loves me and wants to please me and so he has stuck it through and learned the game. In December, he was performing at his best - running 4 times in a row, with strange people and dogs, and quite quickly.
And then, in January, I tripped over him as we entered the ring and though unhurt, he has since decided Flyball is horrible and dangerous. He won’t even walk into the ring without heavy panting, drooling, and shaking.
So, I have pulled him from competition. At tournaments, we work on just entering the building happily - outside, I ignore him; inside, lots of treats and praise. It is slowly paying off. He is back to dragging me into the building, although we only get about 10 feet before he starts panicking again. At home and practice, I’ve reverted to training the skills again. We work on box turns with and without a ball, jumps, and target work to rebuild his confidence in leaving my side.
I don’t work him around other dogs or even “on a lane” so as not to add or increase his fear. When he shows me he feels comfortable in the building again, I’ll go back to putting the entire course together at practices and then at a tournament.
I don’t plan on ever giving up unless he shows me that progress is no longer happening, until then, I’ll go as slowly as needed. Who knows, maybe one day he’ll be the fastest dog out there - he’s got the genes, all he needs is the patience…
Christopher,
I was doing some research on Melatonin. I am interested in learning more since I discovered it is also used in controlling seizures. I was wondering how often you use it. Is it a regular nightly regimen, or do you only administer nightly during tournaments/thunderstorms etc. Does it take several weeks to take effect or is it immediate? What else can you tell me about using it. One article recommends the brand name “Natrol.” I have a Katrina rescue that has been working on multiple fear issues and hopefully will get her first NAFA flyball title this next tournament. (She has one in U-Fli, but unfortunately shut down during that tournament.) I am always diligent as to what the next stressor may be and seek ways to help her overcome her fears. Thanks for the info.
Jackie - thanks for the advice. I will try having Tempe down in the box area more and I will bring along my borderjack. Hopefully he won’t distract the other dogs with that terrier screech (the you are killing me by not letting me play). If he is too much I will bring my acd in and see if that helps. Tempe is competitive with these 2 dogs so that may really help.
Thanks
Deborah,
It’s an ad-hoc medication, meaning I only use it when I think there will be an issue or when there is an issue. It works pretty fast, probably less than 30 minutes after dosing, in many cases you might find that it works much quicker.
For my 30-50 pound dogs it seems to be effective for 2+ hours, so I don’t dose them the night before, just the day of.
It’s not an anti-depressant or anything where you have to have sustained levels in the blood stream and it doesn’t work for a few days.
Because it works so fast, I don’t dose until right before an event or at the first signs of a storm.
There’s a product called “Calm Pet” by NutraBest/Natural Pet Nutrition which contains valerian, chamomile, kava kava, St. John’s wort and melatonin.
I haven’t used it and don’t know if the cocktail is more or less effective than melatonin alone, but it might be worth reading up on since it is marketed specifically to dogs.
Do read up on dosing amounts since the liquid/pill forms vary greatly in the actual concentration of melatonin. While I don’t think you’ll do a lot of harm if you overdose, there’s no reason to be needlessly reckless or wasteful.
Christopher,
Thanks for all the info. I will check out “Calm Pet”, also. I am hoping for positive results.
Deborah
We’re struggling with as well. Flyball boxes are trying to eat our Doxie/Chi mix, Pete. He hates them.
It has been a frustrating experience, that’s for sure and every time we get a dandruffing, freaked out ChiWeenie out there, I contemplate if we’re doing the right thing.
We’re overcome a lot with Pete since June 2007 when he was pulled from the shelter - we worked hard just to get down and back recalls over the jumps. We worked hard on bringing back objects. We worked hard on not submissive urinating and trying to bite when being handled.
Right now he comes out to do fun, fun, fun! recalls back and forth with the box there. We play with what ever toy he wants and we put him up before he wants to stop.
Now we’re working on that horrid box. Now that we’re started competing for the season we’re taking him by the ring all the time. This dog is insanly food-motivated so I literally let him chew on a string cheese stick the whole time the box is triggering. We’re moving closer and closer to the box. I’m also only taking him out when the teams competing also have similar sized dogs so there isn’t this “giant” thing hitting the box next to him.
We’ve also started bringing him out to watch his big dog siblings run and we’re going to start doing chase recalls with his lab brother.
He’ll now run down to the box, take a ball from a hand and come back. Now we just need to get him up ON the box and then triggering the box.
It’s totally been a lesson for us in patience and changing up our training to fit with him. I feel that at this point we just need to get over this with him - he loves running, fetch, chasing his brother around the yard, etc. He’s only a year and a bit so we’ll give him some more time.
Rescue dogs keep falling in my lap dangit and I’ve got to say no to any more fosters.
I have a collie from a hoarder… she is young, though afraid of new things. Her youth, I think, will help her. And she loves other dogs. So we go to tournaments and practice and she gets to play with lots of other friendly dogs so she knows it is a good happy place to be. I hope she will do flyball eventually, I will believe she will be fine. I also plan on doing obedience and agility with her.
Then there is Muffit, a new little border collie. Five years old, about. Taking him to practice, he looses his mind and cannot think. So… I’m going to be working on that, first. He’s smart as a whip and not afraid, just undersocialized.
So, I went ahead and tried the Melatonin suggestion… OMG! It really works.
Usually, I can get about 3 good repetitions on my sighthound before he quits, looses interest, or gives into the stress and shuts down. The first night I gave him Melatonin, he came prancing in, dancing and leaping all about. He was estatic! I set him up for a quick “send to target” review. To my surprise, we worked on the target for about 10 reps. Then, because he was still thrilled and excited, I sent him over some jumps to the target. He did that about 5 times before I got the willies and called an end to the practice.
Next time out, I got in target work with and without jumps, box turns, send aways to the box, and even dead ball retrieves. When I ended, my dog was still happily wagging his tail and dancing all around. It has only gotten better since. The Melatonin seems to have allowed him to focus more on me and the training than on everything else. Since I first began training him in Flyball, I have never seen him learn and perfect things so quickly.
I didn’t know beforehand if noise really had anything to do with his fear, but after seeing the change in him, I betting the noise and echo was a big deal-breaker for him. I can’t wait to get him back in the lanes and racing again… this time while on Melatonin!
Leave a Comment