It is a fifth hurdle placed in the lane – there is no provision for a fifth hurdle in the lane. (No, I do not care that there is a continuous piece of rubber from the box to the fifth hurdle.

What happens, when at a tournament, a dog is injured and removed from the tournament due to this contraption flopping about in all directions? The crowd sees this, is this the impression a dog loving, safety conscious person wants to leave behind? Is this what NAFA means when it intends that all participants promote the sport as a pet friendly, fun-loving, family sport?

In perusing the BoD mtg minutes, it is painfully obvious that the objection was discussed exactly as it was submitted. In other words, experienced, wise, intelligent leaders with years of experience in flyball never raised the issue of “safety” or “adding a hurdle to the lane” versus “does this violate the rules about the box”.

Most will agree that the rules *as they are* do not specifically rule this box illegal. We knew that going in.

Adding this fifth hurdle is not innovation – teams train with a fifth hurdle during the time allocated to warm ups all the time. It was only a matter of time before someone observed the dimensions of the body of the old style springback and decided to take advantage of it.

If this attached fifth hurdle is the result of hours of study, how is it that the “innovator” deemed it safe? Maybe the study was directed more toward finding gray areas in the rules?

Or, maybe it was the intent that this bring the whole business of attaching things to flyball boxes in lieu of training into more focus? Could there be enough of a community movement to get the BoD to move on this? Or do they work with complete impunity?

I am asking, I have not been involved long enough to know from experience.

http://www.cpollackphoto.com/gallery/3440292#193044776-L-LB

I would hate for my dog to get tangled in that mess!

BOX innnovation is great, however twisting the rules in this way is not sportsmanlike and I along with evidently many others on this blog are not buying these distortions. Perhaps your time would be better spent to concentrate on box design -not manipulations of the NAFA rules and attaching jumplike things to the box with rubber.

With all due respect, John, I take issue with your logic. The box certainly can be “two things at once”. Anything can serve multiple purposes. A man can be both a father and a son. He might also be a brother. He probably is someone’s neighbor. Being one thing doesn’t prevent you from also being something else.

By further example….I’ve already pointed out that the tape on a box that serves as a visual aid….similar in purpose as the Bull’s eye on a target…..can also be decorative in nature. Two things…same object.

Now, does an object cease to be what it is just because it is attached to or becomes part of something else? Again, I don’t think so. If I use a nail or a screw to attach a board to another, it doesn’t stop being a nail or a screw. If I place a “jump board” in front of a box to train my dog for a better turn, does it stop being a “jump board” because I use some kind of material to attach it to the box? What was it when it wasn’t attached to the box?

The raised section at the front of the box has nothing to do with the purpose of the box. The box is supposed to deliver a ball to the dog. We describe the allowable dimensions of the box and further the required function of the box. …that the ball must travel at least 24″ from the hole.

The “raised section” does not affect the ball delivery in any way. It does not add or subtract energy from the ball. It does not add framework to the delivery system of the box like the base or the sides or the face or the top of the box serve to house the firing mechanism. The purpose of the raised section is to affect, change, impede, or guide the DOG, not the ball. It’s all about the dog.

“…You might be interested to know that the designer of this innovation, Zac Chernick, has done extensive research on this subject and has analyzed hours of video and hundreds of photos. His conclusion is that this innovation enhances safety ….”

I respect the amount of time and energy that has been spent developing this box design. However, erroneous conclusions when analyzing research data are made all the time. Witness the vast number of “drug recalls” that have made the news. Sometimes, the “benefits” do NOT outweigh the risks of an innovation.

John, have you studied the photographs of this box in action through the link provided by Jackie? Do you see that this “raised section” moves and impedes the dog’s path to the box? Do you see how many times a dog’s feet have actually gone under this section of the box? The debate over whether this section is a training aide or not may be academic. ….but, in my view, had anybody asked those two judges and RD if this constituted a “safety hazard”, they might’ve agreed and pulled this box out of competition for that reason. Unfortunately, it doesn’t appear that anybody challenged this box on the grounds that it was a safety hazard…..only, the “training aide” argument was used.

Now if you can get past the “legal” non-issue you might want to look at the BOI box for what it is: namely an interesting innovation. I think it’s maybe comparable to when the multiple hole boxes most teams use now began to replace the old wedge shaped boxes with the single hole in the middle. Whether or not the BOI box changes the sport the way the last box innovation did is up to you and the other teams in NAFA. If you think this design innovation helps the dogs go faster then you can certainly copy it. If you think it’s a waste of time, the stick with what you’ve got now. The choice is really yours.

Incidentally, a few people have wondered about the safety of the BOI box. You might be interested to know that the designer of this innovation, Zac Chernick, has done extensive research on this subject and has analyzed hours of video and hundreds of photos. His conclusion is that this innovation enhances safety because it encourages the dogs to make a better, safer turn. Of course, each of us have to make the decision for ourselves about what’s best for our dogs. I wouldn’t presume to make that decision for anyone else, but, personally, I think the BOI box is safer for my dog.

Jackie and everyone else,

I owe you a huge apology for this one. I was writing from memory and did not check the date stamp on the handout given at the meeting. You are absolutely right. The complaint letter was dated 1 August. It was an internal forward date that was stamped 23 August.

I am sincerely sorry for this mistake. I did not mean to mislead or misrepresent. I only wanted to demonstrate that there is always more information than what we know about an issue.

At least everyone now knows that I am human and perfectly capable of an error.

………Chris

Recently we were cleaning our building and we pulled a 1 hole, curved front box off a dusty shelf. It made me chuckle about boxes, box innovation & design, and how many box styles she has run on. I had my 11 yr old dog play on it to see if she still would. She happily got her ball, then this weekend she went back to our most current mode of box and did her very nice box turn. We are throwing out the old box btw…unless someone wants it, quick garbage pick up is on Tuesday!

When I saw this extra special box I thought, it’s probably legal. I also thought hey, someone figured out how to attach a prop in front of the box. The tournament pictures where interesting as you got to see lot of dogs using the extra special box hitting extra special part & moving it. I would not want my dogs having the opportunity to hit a part of the box that moved in a unpredictable way. Maybe it helps some dogs, but does it effect the confidence of the dogs that hit it? Dunno, but I guess the team using the extra special box feels it helps more than harms good for them. I felt the same way when I saw the side attachment thingie a TX team was/is using. Now it sucks for teams that have to race against them and feel it is giving them an unfair advantage, but since it is legal I guess that really opens up the box modification game. I still say there is some pride in knowing your dogs can do a good box turn without an extra special box though. Now all teams have a certain type of box for a reason, maybe it’s price, maybe it’s style, # of holes, box builder on your team, teammates would scream bloody murder if the box was heavier etc. We also get to choose ball speed, hole placement, box material etc, all seeking some sort of advantage or maybe just a consistent box? The good news is, in a few short years these too will be obsolete!

Yes, I do feel cynical today!