I have noticed when it’s a larger dog that runs slower it seems to be a HUGE thorn in ones side. If it’s a height dog… not as much.
I suppose it’s because there’s a trade off for the smaller legs and one of the reasons a height dog (more like, it’s owner) can potentially hold such affuence on a team. If misused, as I have experienced personally. I admit freely height dogs and big dogs create sort of a symbiotic relationship in which points, tiltles, pins, ribbons, squeaky toys,whatever , cannot be earned without the other.

I know there are very fast and very slow dogs of all sizes in the racing lanes.

I also know my dogs awalys runs faster when racing against a fast dog. They like the competion.

These are racing strategies and Club beliefs that should be discussed as a team and not decided by the “captain”, and futher, think it would be “honorable” to inform prospective students/members BEFORE they join or even show up for practice with your club. Let them know your club philosophy and how racing line-ups will potentially be formed. I believe flyball is a team sport, no one person should hold all the cards. The dogs work together, so should the humans. If other clubs choose to form line ups differently than my club believes we should, that’s up to them. That’s why they’re on that team and I’m on mine. Plain and simple.

I feel increasing the value of a point has better historical, current, and future context as opposed to inflating the point system.

This topic seems to have generated a free exchange of ideas, and everyone contributing their thoughtful and thought-provoking opinions and experiences contributes to a richer picture of and for flyball enthusiasts.

what if my dog will run 4.5 seconds in a 24 second lineup, but could run 4.3 seconds in a 18 second lineup. it’s not always about points.

I’m sorry if I sound harsh vs slower dogs/teams, they are just as important to the sport as the faster teams, but everyone’s goals/opinions/feelings are important, right, not just the people wanting their points so they can earn another title. that’s not the only goal in flyball.

You opinions are yours, and that of your team, and are no less valid than any thought posted here. It is easy for me to say, as I have never cared about points. It is more fun to be competitive than have a title that no one but us who plays cares about. Same as you say a first place ribbon. When I am asked by friends, “how did you do?” If I say 1st in our Div. – they understand. But saying I got a FD, FDX, TF etc…means nothing.

I agree that it is up to every team to decided how best to set up their teams. If YOU are on a team, and you don’t agree with your fast dog being run with slower dogs, then leave the team. This is a team sport, and teams should be set up in the interest of it’s members. I have never cared where my “fast”dogs run (and all my dogs run under 5 seconds, with a few under 4).

If the newbies don’t care about “racing” or winning, then, why play. They could just go down and back all day for points. The object of the game is to “race” the other team, generating points is just the bonus that comes along with it.

I started pre-divisions. When the then 19 second teams raced the (me) 32 + second team. I was thrilled when Divisons were introduced so we raced teams of like speed – points was never a factor.

In response to Eli… Restructuring the point system to LOWER the 25 point runs to teams that can only run 20 seconds will only discourage people from playing the game in my opinion.

Here’s an idea of how it effects the ‘average recreational team.’ At the last tournament we went to there were a total of 38 teams running. Of those 38 teams only 9 would have earned any 25-point runs! *Bear in mind I’m basing this on the results of the event and several of the 9 teams had a BEST tournament time of 19 seconds – this isn’t to say they ran under 20 seconds with any consistency.

In response to Speedy – Wow! A little harsh on the slow dogs & teams aren’t we?! I don’t for a second think my dog’s potential is compromised by who he runs with or against! He runs 4 seconds no matter where he plays. If I thought otherwise… I’d move him to a different team. So if someone has a issue with where their dog is running – they need no speak up and address it with their team Captain – plain and simple. Everyone’s feeling are important when you play a team sport…. yes, even the feelings of the person with the 8 second dog! Not just the people with 4 second dogs!

OK… I think I need to go color with Larry now since my opinions likely won’t be popular ones!

For those out there who are more than happy to put your 4 second dogs in a 24 second lineup to get points for your 9 and 10 second teammates, I say you’re great and generous people. but not everyone with fast dogs feel that way. What if you are the person with the fast dog on the club who is always put on the slowest team because that’s the only way the 10 second dogs can get points? well your dog will never reach it’s full potential because it’s never challenged to race similar fast dogs. do the feelings of that person count less than the feelings of the person with the slow dog who’s getting the 25 points on the back of your dog?

and did the 10 second dog really ‘earn’ anything if it needs a 4 second dog to do it?

My reference: On Your Mark

Mr Randall uses 6 seconds to determine faster, slower in Chap 10 – Practice and in Chapter 11 – Preparing for a Tournament.

Instead of lowering standards, how about increasing standards to acknowledge the current state of flyball? For example, in reading through “On your Mark”, I get the impression that 6 seconds is some kind of “fast/not fast” mark. I think this is relevant, as it is my understanding that the author wrote the first NAFA rule book, also.

So, if the NAFA point structure was developed based on a team average 6 seconds per dog, then the team that was faster than 24 seconds was awarded maximum points. But this does not reflect flyball today, does it? How many divisions in each tournment have breakouts lower than 24 seconds? Is it the same percentage as it was 15 years ago?

Even the slowest division has teams in it with seed times faster than 24 seconds. Do all teams “deserve” a shot at 25 points per heat?

But what if the scale were “rebalanced”. Let’s say the “fast” flyball dog is now…say…5 seconds. This should “rebalance” the scale to where exceeding 20 seconds earns the maximum points per heat. “Slide” the whole scale “down” 4 seconds, or one second per dog.

This would make for a more favorable comparison between today’s Onyx awardee versus the original, today’s Hobbe’s awardee versus the original.

Would this not increase the value of the 1 and 5 point heat? Would this not be a more favorable comparison of today’s competitors to the original competitors?

The scale would look like this: Under 20 sec, 25 Pts; under 24 sec, 5 Pts; under 28 sec, 1 Pt.

I think this would negatively impact Open class, though. Folks wanting to “run for fun” while visiting out of region always want to know going in that the prospective Open team can beat 24 seconds. Cut 25 points to under 20 seconds and the Open class gets pretty slim. Maybe?

This very small change to the point structure may allow a slower team that walks away from a two day tournament with less than 100 point to maybe walk about with 150 points. However, it may mean that over the racing life span of a dog running on one of these teams the difference between an FDCh-G and a FM or a FMX over an FM, etc. I don’t think this is asking that much and Flyball the way we all know it won’t not lose anything by this change but it may gain something.

To me, the fun has and always will be the thrill of the race. Points aside, I love those squeaky toys! When your team is actually “competing” and not worried about clean runs for points, your dogs get more energized.